Colleen Harkin on The Rita Panahi Show Sky News Australia – 10 June 2025

In this interview, Colleen Harkin appeared on The Rita Panahi Show – Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research on criminal justice.

All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.

Below is a transcript of the interview.

Rita Panahi:

But first joining me is the Panel News Corp Senior Writer Patrick Carlyon and Research Fellow and Director of the Institute of Public Affairs Schools Programme, Colleen Harkin. Let’s start with the Prime Minister’s speech today. He addressed the National Press Club in a speech that was filled with all sorts of motherhood statements. Here’s what I’m talking about.

Anthony Albanese:

Our vision is for a society that is a microcosm for the world where all are respected and valued, and our diversity is recognised as a strength, where our international relationships in the fastest growing region of the world in human history benefit us, but also provide a platform for us to play a positive and stabilising global role in uncertain times.

Rita Panahi:

Colleen, all very warm and fuzzy, diversity is our strength, all the usual nonsense we’ve come to expect. Was there much substance?

Colleen Harkin:

No, there was a lot of lofty motherhood statements. It was like reading a Hallmark gift card really, sort of real difference in people’s lives, global vision and leadership. But the problem with this is that it’s not ambition, it’s actually negligence. Because the real difference that he can make in people’s lives is the cost of living and their energy bills. And the economy is driven by the cost of… Our foundation is driven… Sorry. The foundation of the economy is driven by the cost of our energy. And he really should be focusing on what’s broken at home. People are barely able to keep the lights on. It was a sort of like being at an afternoon tea with the girls, a few glasses of champagne and not really concentrating on what people need him to do.

Rita Panahi:

Well, the Prime Minister’s, Patrick, hoping to have some face time with President Trump. How is he going to explain Australia’s reluctance to increase defence spending? So many of our allies have, and we seem to be a little bit recalcitrant, saying, “No, you’re not going to tell us what to do.”

Patrick Carlyon:

Well, there is one theory of thought that he will actually have that meeting and then announce a rise in spending, which politically might be savvy if you like. Look, we’ve been like this country with the ostrich headed in the sand for so long where basically we’re just denied talking about it or thinking about this fact that the world has changed. We have to be able to defend ourselves and it’s something that’s become a separating saw over a long time that we’re in this position where we don’t spend any money on defence. We have no great plan for spending money on defence, and we are decades behind where we need to be in a quickly changing world.

Rita Panahi:

Colleen, the plan appears to be America will save us if anything happens. And America is asking us to raise defence spending to 3, 3.5% of GDP. And if we’re not willing to do that, can we have this expectation they’re going to come and save the day?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, why would they? If we’re not going to be proper partners in this process, why would they come out and help save us?

Rita Panahi:

Absolutely. And just finally with the Prime Minister, he is in a blessed position. He’s just won in a landslide who’s got the Greens in the Senate. He doesn’t even need to deal with the crossbenchers. But Patrick, the financial issues facing this country are real and a landslide doesn’t change that.

Patrick Carlyon:

No, that’s right. Look, energy bills is the obvious place to go on this. Energy bills are going up, cost of living is going up. These are things that Australians have been feeling since 2022, since Alba was first elected. He’s not really saying anything that’s addressing those issues in a massive way. And I think that’s why today’s speech was so disappointing. He does have a mandate really. He has the numbers in the House of Representatives. He can do things and basically today’s speech suggests that he doesn’t really need to do much. He just wants to sort of dabble around the edges.

Rita Panahi:

Well, on energy policy, let’s check in on how the Albanese government’s Future Made in Australia plan is going and InterContinental Energy, the co-owner of two massive green hydrogen projects in Western Australia has conceded initial costs for delivering green energy from these facilities is going to be between $8 and $11 a kilogramme. Eventually, they hope that it falls to about $4 a kilogramme, but according to MST market analyst Saul Kavonic, “Hydrogen prices need to be below $2 a kilogramme to become close to competitive with other energy sources – $8 to $11 a kilogramme equates to over $60 a gigajoule, which no major energy user can afford.” Meanwhile, the average cost of natural gas, Patrick, in Australia is just under $12 per gigajoule. This is again, one of the prime minister’s, the Labor Party’s dreams about green hydrogen. We’re going to become this renewable superpower and the evidence so far is not there. Our prices are going up, and the more we invest in this sector, the more prices increase.

Patrick Carlyon:

Look, countries and energy companies all over the world have looked at green hydrogen. They’ve tried to make it work. It’s simply not viable at the cost that it comes at the moment. That technology doesn’t exist. And the fact that green hydrogen is a pillar of our energy future according to this government is hilarious. And it’s really sad because it doesn’t exist yet. It’s not on the table, it’s not an alternative, and it can’t be an alternative until the technology exists.

Rita Panahi:

Yet they’re obsessed with green hydrogen, Colleen. But we’ve got plenty of gas, coal, uranium, all very reliable sources of energy that we’re not properly using.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah. And this is just recklessness, Rita, because it’s four to five times the cost of the gas and they’re wanting to call this a plan for the future. Can you imagine a CEO announcing to the shareholders that we’re going to invest $8 billion and maybe in 20 years time we might get a return on investment? It’s not an investment. It’s ideological indulgence.

Rita Panahi:

It is so ideological. They’ve just completely abandoned reality and ideology is ruling the day. Now to Channel Ten’s decision to axe its flagship current affairs programme, the project that’s been on air for 16 years. Our colleague, Steve Price, is defending the unwatchable lefty talk. Price, he has been the sole conservative voice, some would say token conservative voice on the programme. And he writes in the Herald Sun that “People dancing on the grave of Ten’s The Project are ignorant. It means that virtually all live television, bar some AFL panel shows, and some comedy programmes and the 6 PM news are now run out of Sydney. Melbourne is the big loser today and the city will never get back what it had ever again.” Colleen, I don’t think the whole Melbourne-Sydney rivalry comes into this. That’s not why people are mocking this programme.

Colleen Harkin:

So I have to confess, I’ve never actually watched The Project.

Rita Panahi:

Never for 16 years, Colleen. It’s been on for 16 years.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, I’ve never actually watched it for the reasons that you just said. It’s a lopsided, not balanced perspective of the day’s news. But to Steve Price’s comment about business leaving Melbourne, IPA Research will tell you that there’s 130,000 businesses have left Victoria in the last year.

Rita Panahi:

Wow.

Colleen Harkin:

So it’s not just something like the project, it’s not just this sort of lack of… Reflective of what people want to see in here. There’s an undercurrent of businesses leaving Melbourne regardless of the project.

Rita Panahi:

Wow. 130,000.

Colleen Harkin:

130,000.

Rita Panahi:

And what is the predominant reason that’s happening?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, red tape, difficulty of doing business in Victoria, all of those sort of economic pressures.

Rita Panahi:

State taxes wouldn’t be helping at all.

Colleen Harkin:

Correct. Yeah.

Rita Panahi:

Patrick, I can’t believe Colleen has not watched any The Project in 16 years. Surely you’ve caught an episode here and there.

Patrick Carlyon:

Not for many years. I think, to be fair, it was aimed at an audience far younger than us. I was sort of-

Rita Panahi:

16 years ago, you were that young, Patrick.

Patrick Carlyon:

Yes, true. Okay. But it always seemed… It was always a hint of sanctimony in the messaging of it, wasn’t it? It sort of was…

Rita Panahi:

Yeah. That’s what I didn’t like. It was the mix of sanctimony, arrogance, mixed with stupidity. I mean, if you have the sanctimony without the stupidity or the stupidity without the sanctimony, it could work. But is it sad though for Melbourne that it’s no longer here?

Patrick Carlyon:

Look, I think Price, he made a better point when he talked about panel shows being balanced. You don’t see it on the ABC as a starting point. I mean, I always grew up to think that good TV was sort of disagreement and conflict and passionate opinions and heavy debating, if you like. And you don’t see a lot of that anymore. The middle has been lost on TV.

Rita Panahi:

But I hardly think the panel provided that.

Patrick Carlyon:

So no.

Rita Panahi:

It really didn’t. But I mean, it is commercial TV. They’re not obliged to have that balance. They don’t have the charter like the ABC do, and the ABC never live up to that. Now, this is a only in Victoria story. Another disappointment for the Victorian taxpayer. The Labor government here have spent $250 million on a high speed express busway from Doncaster to Melbourne that was supposed to be high speed, as the name suggests, cut down travel times. But despite those promises from Premier Allan, it seems like this bus trip could take even longer, Colleen, because instead of a 100 kilometre speed limits, we might be down to as low as 60 in sections. So we’ve spent $250 million to have a longer bus trip to the city from Doncaster. It doesn’t work that well.

Colleen Harkin:

It’s like a Monty Python episode, isn’t it? It is ridiculous. And apparently, of course there’s issues with the trains as well. There’s always issues with the train. The new trains don’t actually fit on the gauge of the new infrastructure that’s being built. So it’s just a crazy situation and like an extreme waste of taxpayer’s money not doing the planning that’s required.

Rita Panahi:

Patrick, the comedic value aside, this is a pretty massive stuff up $250 million and very questionable value.

Patrick Carlyon:

It’s not funny anymore. I mean the North East Link-

Rita Panahi:

It’s a little funny.

Patrick Carlyon:

… the budgets are blown out. I drive through there going to and from home from time to time. It’s just like a bomb site. It’s been like that for years. And the idea that all that waiting and traffic jams is going to amount to something that’s not even as good as what it was before in this context is so galling. No, it’s not funny anymore.

Rita Panahi:

It’s a little bit funny but not for the taxpayers, I’ve got to admit. Before you go, the United Nations Youth Branch has made some unbelievable claims saying that young Queenslanders can’t have a night out or see their friends because they’re terrified. They’re being targeted by their government’s adult crime, adult time, youth crime crackdown. I think you’re only targeted if you’re breaking the law. The UN’s got no idea. They’ve tried to dictate to the Queensland government what to do. Premier Crisafulli had no time for that. And they’re continuing on with their campaign.

Colleen Harkin:

I’m right behind Crisafulli on this one. People have a right to feel safe when they go out. And I don’t know what these youth people think that they do, that they can’t just go out and have a good time unless they break the law. I mean, it’s an absurd sort of proposition to say that they’re being targeted. And Victoria’s having a similar scenario about youth crime, and I know that the Coalition are talking about break. What is it? Rich bail, do jail time. It’s the same scenario. I think people are fed up with not being able to live their civil life in a comfortable expected way to be safe.

Rita Panahi:

Patrick, you’ve got teenage children. Are they scared to be out and about in Queensland if you’re out there for a holiday?

Patrick Carlyon:

Look, I’m pretty sure this didn’t resonate anywhere, but especially as Colleen was saying in Victoria, I mean the premier up there in Queensland has talked about adult crime, adult time. Wouldn’t we love to have that down here?

Rita Panahi:

Oh, yes.

Patrick Carlyon:

But I do invite the author of that report to come down and go shopping in Victoria and perhaps we’ll have some machete wielding youths running past.

Rita Panahi:

It’ll be very enriching for them, I’m sure.

Patrick Carlyon:

Yes.

Rita Panahi:

Patrick Carlyon and Colleen Harkin, thank you so much.

This transcript with Colleen Harkin talking on The Rita Panahi Show – Sky News Australia 10 June 2025 has been edited for clarity.