Colleen Harkin on The Rita Panahi Show Sky News Australia – 7 October 2025

In this interview, Colleen Harkin appeared on The Rita Panahi Show – Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research on criminal justice.

All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.

Below is a transcript of the interview.

Rita Panahi:

Let’s bring in the panel. Joining me for more on this is senior News Corp writer Patrick Carlyon and director of the Institute of Public Affairs Schools Programme, Colleen Harkin. Colleen, we are spending a lot more. Do we have better academic results, at least, to reflect this extra investment?

Colleen Harkin:

The short answer to that is no, Rita. The longer answer is that this is an example of just how out of touch bureaucracy is with the average Australian who’s dealing with the cost of living crisis, increases in tax everywhere. These 45% over the last few years is an outrageous figure.

But it goes to the point about these people in these positions are not at the coalface of dealing with the education system. Our classrooms are littered with poorly behaved students and teachers have no authority over. Our academic results are in free fall, with 33% of all students across the nation not meeting minimum benchmarks in literacy and numeracy. And yet we’re paying these bureaucrats incredible fees to do what? To what end?

Rita Panahi:

And Patrick, that’s the point. There is no return on this extra investment. Our academic results are only getting worse.

Patrick Carlyon:

Oh, look, I wouldn’t mind that pay rise from 2019.

Rita Panahi:

Yeah, well, of course.

Patrick Carlyon:

The problem is Rita I think under 600 grand a year. These people are getting 900. It sounds like a racket really. And look, I want to see better paid teachers who are better qualified. That’s where education matters, in the classroom. We all remember the good teachers we had. They were formative in who we are. They’re important. And you look at the Finland example where teachers have-

Rita Panahi:

Minimum master’s degrees. Yeah.

Patrick Carlyon:

Yes, they have master’s degrees, they have clout. It’s a desirable job. It’s the first sort of job that people want. Why aren’t we bringing about that excellence? Bigger bureaucracies don’t bring about better education.

Rita Panahi:

And those elite teachers, you’re not recruiting them just based on income. Because some of the very best teachers in the world, according to academic results, including Finland, get paid less than our teachers, even though the cost of living there is also quite high.

Now let’s move on to this very disturbing story. Sadly, not entirely surprising. A billboard overlooking a busy intersection in Fitzroy, Melbourne’s inner north, has been covered with pro-Hamas graffiti on the second anniversary of the October 7th terrorist attacks. The graffiti reads, “Glory to Hamas,” alongside an outline of a Palestinian flag around the corner. There was also this graffiti on the side of an office works building saying, “Free Palestine, October seven, do it again.” Patrick, this would just be soul-destroying for the Jewish community on any day, but particularly on this two year anniversary.

Patrick Carlyon:

Look, these kinds of shows of antisemitism have become normalised, and there’s lots of reasons for that. One of those reasons is the lack of political leadership in the two years since the October seven massacre. But one good thing I would say from today is you look at the likes of Anthony Albanese and Jacinta Allan, they have actually, there’s a grittier rhetoric to their responses now that hasn’t always been there. And I think that’s a small sort of good thing that comes out of this, that they have got tougher. But the fact that these things are happening in Australia, I mean it really does go to what sort of society you are and how you work together. This is just dreadful.

Rita Panahi:

It is dreadful. And Colleen, the PM has spoken out about this. He had this to say, “The terrorist propaganda defacing a Melbourne billboard on the anniversary of the October seven murders is abhorrent. The people responsible must face the full force of the law. The AFP, Australian Federal Police, will work with Victoria Police to bring them to justice.”

So a strong response there from the prime minister. But the Jewish community is understandably unhappy with the prime minister, with the state government, because there has been this permissive attitude to antisemitism since October seven. And we’ve had two years of it. We’ve had just this both-siding. There’s been this tolerance for really extreme intolerance.

Colleen Harkin:

It has, Rita, and for two years it’s been allowed to fester. So Albanese is right to call it out as abhorrent. But where was he when people were celebrating this on the steps of the opera house a couple of years ago? This is hatred, pure and simple, and it has no place in Australia and on our streets, and it’s an attack on the very values that hold us together as a nation. We are a very tolerant and free society, and these people are celebrating an organisation that would kill gays, gives machine guns to children. There is nothing to celebrate about.

Rita Panahi:

Oh, you talk about women’s rights, you talk about LGBT rights, you talk about all the things the left supposedly cares about, and there is not much of that being exhibited by Hamas or anyone in authority in Gaza. And Patrick, for this to happen in the city of Yarra, again, a very left-wing, LGBT obsessed, and yet they don’t see that conflict between the different interests. It really is quite bizarre that they are blind to the ideology they’re supporting here.

Patrick Carlyon:

Look, we sort of live in a fantasy world of debate when it comes to this in Australia. It’s so far removed from the realities of the Middle East. We want a state of Palestine apparently, but there is no state at the moment, and it’s being run by terrorists. I mean, how do you actually make that happen? It is just la-di-da nonsense to actually push these agendas. And you’re quite right. It is such an extreme regime in Gaza at the moment. The suggestion that somehow this represents something good or fulfilling is just so abhorrently offensive.

Rita Panahi:

It is. And you never see at these protests, and we’ve had two years of them, any anti-Hamas signs. If there were, I would have a little bit more respect for it. If they wanted to free Palestine, including freeing Palestine from Hamas, then we could all get on board that sort of activism.

Now, let’s stay in Victoria. And business groups have hit out at the Allan Labour government over its plan to make working from home a legal right. They say the laws would be unnecessary and harmful because most businesses already offer flexible working arrangements and making it a legal right will only reduce Victoria’s competitiveness and add extra red tape. Colleen, the Victorian Chamber of Commerce and Industry did a survey of more than 700 businesses and found that three out of four businesses already provide flexible work arrangements. And let’s be honest, working from home isn’t possible or desirable for every job.

Colleen Harkin:

In fact, most of the jobs that we actually need can’t be done from home. Police, firemen, nurses, all those people who actually do productive things in our society. Look, this is completely self-serving from Jacinta Allan’s point of view. I’m sure it will be appealing to the average voter, office desk worker, but it is something to be very concerned about because with the rise of AI, the more you can do at home in isolation, the less likely your job is to be secured.

And the government should just stay out of the way of business and let business get on and do what it does best and manage its own relationships with its own employees. It’s not in the employees’ interest for this to happen, and it’s self-serving on the government’s side that they think that that will appeal to people and vote for them next year. But it is not a good thing for Victoria.

Rita Panahi:

It certainly isn’t a good thing for Victoria. There’s a real question, Patrick, about the legality of it because there’s some Commonwealth laws that seem to be being breached here. But I think it will be popular. I think people prefer not to come into work if they can. And if you’re not particularly politically engaged, it could be a decider on how you vote.

Patrick Carlyon:

Look, I think as Colleen was suggesting, it’s a cynical political gimmick. It’s not about workers’ rights, it’s not about family time. It’s about the election, which is in November next year. And you might notice that the government’s not pushing this through in any hurry. They want to drag this out. They want it to be talked about. They want to be seen as the government that’s on the side of workers and families and looking after people. And I think it is very cynical when you look at it like that because legally it has all sorts of problems with it in terms of the Commonwealth laws.

Rita Panahi:

And I can see, Colleen, women’s issues being brought into this, that this is a pro-women piece of legislation, and if you oppose it, then you don’t want women in the workforce. You want to keep women down. I can see that kind of messaging coming to the fore as we get closer to the election with this piece of legislation.

Colleen Harkin:

But it’s disingenuous because already three out of four employers are already having flexible work relationships with their staff. So it’s not a male-female thing, it’s a work employer-employee relationship situation. The fact that it is already in place proves that it’s not necessary for the government to lock it in.

Rita Panahi:

Now, let’s go to Queensland. The Crisafulli government’s adult crime, adult time laws have led to more than 14,000 charges against youth offenders with victim numbers across nine major crime categories dropping by nearly 10,000 people in the first nine months of 2025, compared with the same period last year.

Colleen, Queensland got serious about tackling youth crime, and thus far the figures seem to be showing that it’s having an impact. Who would’ve known, if you actually properly punish people for breaking the law, they’re less likely to break the law?

Colleen Harkin:

Correct. Who knew-

Rita Panahi:

Who would’ve thought?

Colleen Harkin:

… for instance that you might not do something. Well, that’s right. I mean, Queensland has shown that it works. They’ve shown the blueprint that Victoria just needs to follow, but Victoria is simply not serious about our crime situation. My colleague Mary Schlitz did some research that shows that 30% of our prison beds are empty and that not only do we have the space for more prisoners to be incarcerated, but we also have the capacity to get revenue from this. So she’s done a great report on that.

But it just shows that they’re just not serious about what most Victorians are very worried about and are experiencing personally, the carjackings, the home invasions, the violent crimes. They’re just not addressing it at all.

Rita Panahi:

Patrick, I don’t know what the Crisafulli government was thinking with this adult crime, all time. I mean, have they not thought about machete bins? Because apparently that has been working brilliantly.

Patrick Carlyon:

Yes. I haven’t kept count on the machetes that have been handed in so far. And look, the problem in Victoria is repeat offenders. You’re not stopping one crime when you put someone in jail, you’re probably stopping 10 or 20, and that’s been well identified for years in Victoria. But why wouldn’t we just fully import adult crime, adult time overnight? It would make Victorians feel a lot better, a lot safer. It would make Melbourne a much better place to be.

Rita Panahi:

And this whole notion that you can’t solve these issues with tough on crime measures, it’s very popular in progressive circles, but it is so intellectually barren. You look at any country from Singapore to El Salvador, and you can see the evidence that if you actually are tough on crime, you will reduce the crime rate dramatically.

In El Salvador, what they’ve been able to achieve there in quick time, one of the highest murder rates anywhere in the world, and to now be one of the safest places in just a few years by really aggressively locking up bad guys. I know, again, it’s a novel notion, but it could work.

Patrick Carlyon, Colleen Harkin, thank you so much for your time tonight.

This transcript of Colleen Harkin talking on The Rita Panahi Show – Sky News Australia from 7 October 2025 has been edited for clarity.