Colleen Harkin on The Weekly Wrap Mornings ABC Radio Melbourne – 27 February 2026

Rafael Epstein:

I’m not sure if they describe themselves as optimists or pessimists, but my guests are Emma Dawson, Executive Director of the Chiefly Research Centre. Optimist or pessimist, you have to choose one.

Emma Dawson:

Always an optimist.

Rafael Epstein:

Optimist?

Emma Dawson:

Optimist.

Rafael Epstein:

And Colleen Harkin is director of the schools programme at the Institute for Public Affairs. Optimist, pessimist?

Colleen Harkin:

Optimist.

Rafael Epstein:

Optimist.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, way to go.

Emma Dawson:

The late Susan Ryan once said to me, the only way to survive any kind of career anywhere near politics is relentless optimism.

Colleen Harkin:

And I’m going to fess that by, I speak to ChatGPT every day too.

Rafael Epstein:

You do?

Colleen Harkin:

I do.

Rafael Epstein:

About more than?

Colleen Harkin:

Not personal.

Rafael Epstein:

Right, just like that’s your search function?

Colleen Harkin:

It’s become my Google really.

Rafael Epstein:

All right.

Emma Dawson:

That’s what it is, it’s just that plain language inquiry.

Rafael Epstein:

Everybody that used to get money out of a Google search no longer does, you are denying them their revenue.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, I hadn’t thought about that to be honest, but it’s like everything else when something gets disrupted.

Emma Dawson:

Making the choice in the free market.

Colleen Harkin:

Things get disrupted and life moves on and thesis, antithesis, synthesis, something else will come along.

Rafael Epstein:

Boom, and there goes the economic model for businesses around the world, welcome to the digital age. Look, plenty to get to with what could be, they’re flying a ginormous kite with red neon lights on it and it’s got negative gearing blazoned across the sky.

Before we get to that though, you heard just before the news, the Prime Minister was doing one of those word association things at a Herald Sun forum. The question came actually from the Herald Sun editor Sam Weir, I’ll just play that to you just so we can get stuck into whether or not the PM did anything wrong, here it is.

Sam Weir:

Grace Tame.

Anthony Albanese:

Difficult.

Rafael Epstein:

And then our 774 reporter Kate Meade, she was where the PM was yesterday and she did ask this question of the PM in Werribee.

Kate:

Prime Minister, are all women difficult or is it just Grace Tame? Do you regret calling her difficult?

Anthony Albanese:

No. What was done was, I was at a forum, I was asked to describe people in one word, and Grace Tame, you certainly can’t describe in one word, she has had a difficult life.

Rafael Epstein:

And that’s quite the question from Kate Meade, are all women difficult or is it just Grace Tame? I’m actually going to do something novel before I ask Emma and Colleen, Paul has been waiting from Torquay, so we might let Paul have first dibs. What do you want to say about that, Paul?

Paul:

Good day, Raf. I’m on the way to Mount Melbergen by the way to hike it, so thanks for taking my call.

Rafael Epstein:

Pleasure.

Paul:

I just love the way that he paused, did take quite a while to process it and I think it was a personal attack. I would love to have seen him just been honest and say, I find her challenging, or he could have used another word to express that she’s a maligned character. But I just thought he could have been a bit more honest, and I think that’s what people love about Trump to some degree, I’m not a Trump-ian, but just be honest and front up and say, look, I have found her difficult or challenging and explain why.

Rafael Epstein:

Interesting, Paul, have a great hike, enjoy it. Emma, I’ll start with you, what did you think?

Emma Dawson:

Well-behaved women rarely make history, as Eleanor Roosevelt once said.

Rafael Epstein:

Is that a real quote?

Emma Dawson:

That is a real quote.

Rafael Epstein:

“Well behaved women rarely make history.”

Emma Dawson:

Rarely make history. I’d like to preface everything I am about to say by saying that I think Grace Tame is a warrior and she has done incredible work from a very, Prime Minister’s right about this difficult childhood, to advocate for children and against sexual abuse and exploitation.

Rafael Epstein:

And if you’re not aware by the way, she was abused as a child, sexually abused as a child.

Emma Dawson:

That’s right. This is a classic case of foot and mouth disease and the apology making things worse. For a start, don’t do word association games about people with-

Rafael Epstein:

It’s the Herald’s Sun, Emma, he’s like-

Emma Dawson:

That’s hostile maybe now.

Rafael Epstein:

… He’s going to be doing that.

Emma Dawson:

… Right, I know, but just… And I understand, I have some sympathy here for Albanese because it’s a ridiculous position to be put in and I’m sure he has found things difficult lately. Grace Tame interviewed him in the 2022 election campaign, but her remarks about Palestine and Israel in Sydney were inflammatory. I’m on the record saying I don’t like that use of that phrase “globalise the intifada,” I understand it means different things to different people, but at this time I think it’s okay to say maybe we’ll just not use that phrase for a while.

I think yes, the Prime Minister has found that difficult, he’s found that challenging and that has slipped out. And I think people would understand if you just said, look, I was put on the spot, it was obviously given the pause, he could have just been saying, this is too difficult to answer. But it’s such an old trope that women who speak out and stand up are difficult, and I think it’s really unfortunate that this has happened.

Rafael Epstein:

Colleen.

Colleen Harkin:

I love how we always disagree. No, I think I’m going to stick up for Alba here, it was a personal opinion he was asked. I agree the game is stupid, but if you’re in that space, you’ve got to play the game. It was his personal opinion of how he has found her, he’s perfectly entitled to say he found her difficult, I don’t have a problem with a person reflecting on something that’s a negative experience. And the idea that all women are difficult or not difficult, that’s ridiculous.

Rafael Epstein:

Was there a gendered element to his treatment of her?

Colleen Harkin:

No. Why do we assume just because … if he had to say the guy was difficult, would we say anything little?

Emma Dawson:

This is the problem.

Colleen Harkin:

He’s entitled to say-

Rafael Epstein:

Let Colleen finish.

Colleen Harkin:

… Because what happens here, is that you can’t criticise women. And women, there are plenty of unpalatable, problematic, difficult, criminal, whatever you like, women are in that respect no different to men. And we’ve got to get over this scenario that just because I’m a female, I’m not allowed to be criticised, you’re not allowed to say anything against me. It’s outrageous, I can’t believe I’m talking about sticking up for Alba.

Rafael Epstein:

Take tonight IPI representative [inaudible 00:06:25]. Emma.

Emma Dawson:

It’s a fair point. And I’m not of the school that goes all that reveals some deep misogynistic belief in Albanese. From what I know of him, and I don’t know him well, I think his gender politics are pretty good actually, and I don’t think that it was automatically a misogynistic thought. I think he genuinely thinks, this is difficult, it’s been difficult for me.

Colleen Harkin:

But this is not about Alba.

Rafael Epstein:

Just let Emma finish.

Emma Dawson:

The point here is, and what it comes back to is how divided we are becoming and how quick to offend and insult we are as a nation, different. So the people that hear difficult through that lens of that’s a typical misogynistic thing that men say about women, it tends to be, it’s something that’s very widely held view on the left amongst progressive people. People who are more socially conservative might think like, Colleen, well what’s the big deal, you’re just speaking a fact. But that language is loaded in our cultural discourse and we’ve got to the point where you go, it was a trap in many ways.

You go into a room with a media organisation that for right or wrong, you’re seen as being on one side of the political ledger and you are goaded into saying things that will cause outrage on the other side of politics. And I just find it so unhelpful for the progress of the country, that massive level of discord.

Rafael Epstein:

Final thought from you, I do want to get onto [inaudible 00:07:54].

Colleen Harkin:

I just agree. That is part of the problem, that to be offended is a crime now, just be offended and move on. Free speech is really, really important, and expressing a personal opinion or a view of something does not make it inherently misogynistic or racist or whatever.

Emma Dawson:

I have been called difficult and I have-

Colleen Harkin:

I wonder why?

Emma Dawson:

… On many, many, many occasions.

Colleen Harkin:

I’ve never been called difficult.

Emma Dawson:

I move in the wrong circle. But as Grace Tame said, you take it as a badge of honour.

Rafael Epstein:

I think you guys are going to get me in trouble, I’m not sure. Colleen Harkin and Emma Dawson are with us. I do want to get onto negative gearing capital gains, they’re the biggest bug bears for many people, federal government’s tossing both into the air. But Andrew is in Brunswick, just on Grace Tame, Anthony Albanese and being difficult, what do you want to say, Andrew?

Andrew:

I wanted to concur with one of your guests, and I think that in the current climate, it felt like Grace Tame, absolute warrior, and I’m sorry to say the but word, but what she said in Sydney to Globalise Intifada, in this current context, the second Intifada was murderous, it’s a stupid thing to say. So I fully think that she’s challenging, in some context she could be difficult, but that one word association, stupid game, probably shouldn’t have said it. But equally, Grace Tame can be challenging for some people, she’s a warrior, but said something completely stupid a few weeks ago.

Rafael Epstein:

Thank you for your call. It’s 16 minutes past 10:00, you’re listening to 774 with me Raf Epstein, we chat through the news of the week every Friday with Emma and Colleen. Today, the kite flying, massive kites, I should call it a blimp, it’s like a Zeppelin, it’s not a kite. Negative Gearing’s being modelled by Treasury, so to his capital gains tax, we don’t know what they’ll actually decide. Kate is calling about aspects of that from South Bank, what do you want to mention, Kate?

Kate:

Good morning. All strength to Grace Tame, and as a proudly difficult woman, I’d like to raise the issue of really committed to paying fair tax, really value the importance of paying tax, you can pay extra superannuation and get a tax deduction.

Rafael Epstein:

You can.

Kate:

How is that different to a mom and pop investor investing in low-cost apartments to provide affordable rental to build up equity to retire on? How is that different if that is a mechanism to-

Rafael Epstein:

So you’d like to preserve those investment tax breaks as they are?

Kate:

… I’m not educated enough about economy to be able to make that comment, but just making the comment that there are lots of ways people can reduce their individual mom and pop individual household tax. How about we focus on mining and major corporations paying a fair amount of tax and we could absolutely then afford to let our children and others get tertiary educated without having lifelong debt.

Rafael Epstein:

Well, there might be more money in the coffers. Kate, thank you. Emma, do you want to see changes to negative gear and capital gains?

Emma Dawson:

Personally, speaking as Emma Dawson, absolutely, I do. I’ve been banging this drum for years and years and it’s only just over 12 months ago that I, in my last big project at per Capita convened a community tax summit in Melbourne, which Ken Henry spoke and gave that address where he said that the tax and transfer system, basically, it’s an act of intergenerational bastardry, is what he said. And community sentiment has shifted a long way on this in the last six years-

Rafael Epstein:

Central government things.

Emma Dawson:

… Well, it’s true and lots of us have done a lot of work in that space.

Rafael Epstein:

Government said exactly that, they said it shifted.

Emma Dawson:

Well, it has, and I did an annual tax survey for nine years at per capita, it’s been going for 15, which is a generation roughly. And we have seen over time community attitudes, population attitudes towards tax and transfer have shifted considerably. And a majority of people for at least the last three or four years have believed that tax concessions for wealthy property investors are distorting the market and disadvantaging their kids, even small mum and dad investors.

Rafael Epstein:

I only want to interrupt to say this, talking to sources who know inside the federal government, it’s exactly what they were saying to me this morning. So whether or not that is right or wrong, that is the sentiment that is leading to them flying the card.

Emma Dawson:

Well, maybe think tanks have some influence to that, who knows.

Rafael Epstein:

Who knows.

Emma Dawson:

But look, I think it’s a fundamentally important issue, but to respond to what that caller was saying there, yes, we also need to look at things like how much we tax our gas exports and resources and so on. But the idea that we can just hit billionaires with a new tax and it’s going to fix all our problems is a nonsense. Miranda Stewart’s one of the best tax experts this country has produced, she’s now at Columbia in New York, but she spoke at our tax summit last year and she pointed out that we could not just tax but confiscate the wealth of every billionaire on the planet and it would fund the New Zealand government for two and a half years.

Rafael Epstein:

Right.

Emma Dawson:

So this tax-

Rafael Epstein:

Taxing billionaires is not the solution.

Emma Dawson:

… It’s nice, but it’s not the answer, we need wholesale structural reform.

Rafael Epstein:

I’m assuming that Colleen does not want to confiscate every billionaire’s wealth, I’m assuming that’s not your position.

Colleen Harkin:

Glad you know me that well.

Rafael Epstein:

Negative gearing capital gains.

Colleen Harkin:

Look, I think the words negative gearing get people, it’s a hot topic, I don’t think that the average punter really understands what it means, what the consequences are. And if you don’t use the word negative gearing and you say, it is a cost to the business, and your investment property is a business, all businesses expenses are tax-deductible, so it’s no different in that respect.

And if you look at the stats, 20 per cent of Australians own an investment property, and of those, only about four or five per cent own a second property. So we’re talking about one per cent of Australians who have two or more investment properties.

Emma Dawson:

No, it’s a little bit more, but you’re right, [inaudible 00:14:16] invests are very small.

Colleen Harkin:

It’s a very small, very, very small number. To your point, whatever you do is not going to change the dial all of that much and you can’t tax your way out of a housing-

Rafael Epstein:

Can I just ask you to respond to a slightly different part? I do think it’s a bit more than one per cent, but you’re right, it’s a small number. What if the federal government comes out and says, look, maybe it won’t make a big difference to house prices, but it’s fairer in the housing market because you’ve effectively got people who are investors, you’ve got businesses competing with people who want to buy their own home.

Colleen Harkin:

… But you don’t really, that’s the point, is that who is it actually aimed at. My concern with this stuff is that eventually the government will take that space, because taxing people out of the incentive to invest, you end up with less houses and higher costs. It’s unintended consequences of people withdrawing from the market or not selling at all, the CGT component of this. The-

Rafael Epstein:

You’ll get a chance, Emma, just let Colleen finish.

Colleen Harkin:

… What it does. And the only way even what they’re talking about at the moment is, for example, a retrospective CGT decreasing the offset from 50 to 33, which we’re talking at moment.

Rafael Epstein:

Just to explain, retrospective means if you’ve done it in the past, you wouldn’t get that break into the future.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, they’re talking about maybe even taxing it past. So I’ve personally-

Rafael Epstein:

You might’ve bought the house 10 years ago, but you’ll paying in future.

Colleen Harkin:

… Correct. And I never agree with retrospective legislation ever, I can’t think of a single thing that I would support retrospective legislation on. But in this situation, even if they retrospectively apply it, it still only gets about $5 billion. Now, $5 billion in the scheme of things is nothing, it’s a third of what the CFMEU just got from the Victorian government.

Rafael Epstein:

It’s two and a half hospitals.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, but that’s nothing nationally.

Rafael Epstein:

It’s still something. By the way, we don’t know exactly what they’re going to do.

Emma Dawson:

No, we don’t.

Colleen Harkin:

No, this is all we’re all just talking about.

Rafael Epstein:

We don’t know precisely what [inaudible 00:16:10].

Emma Dawson:

And let’s make a couple of important points here about policy and how it operates. You’re right, negative gearing applies to all business activity. If you take on a cost, if you make a loss doing setting up a business, you should be able to claim that back. The intent of that was to support people to invest in productive activities like small business and entrepreneurship. When the capital gains tax discount was introduced in 1999, it was a result of the John Ralph’s review into business taxation, and we were told it would enliven the equities market and turn us into a nation of shareholders and entrepreneurs. And none of that has happened, we have instead become a nation with a landed gentry.

Before the introduction of the CGT, negative gearing really wasn’t a problem, you weren’t going to take an ongoing loss on a property unless you knew you were going to make a big gain and have it very concessionally taxed. And before the introduction of CGT, and it’s a massive boon to people that have assets already, and that’s where the generational thing comes in, but retail banking in this country was fairly similar to the rest of the world. 67% of retail banking in this country now is residential mortgages, that is not the mark of a country that has an active and a lively economy, and this is a big part of the reason that we can’t get productivity growth and we can’t grow the economy without inflation. We need that money, there’s $10 trillion in property, it should be going into things that create jobs.

Rafael Epstein:

Very quick response from you, Colleen, because I’ve got to get to a little air break and some calls.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, there’s so much in this in terms of land mass that’s available for development that we don’t do, the red tape that’s involved in that that is a disincentive. The whole immigration story about our numbers-

Rafael Epstein:

You can’t move on the immigration at 25 past 10:00, we haven’t done taxation yet.

Colleen Harkin:

… Over a three or four year period, we have about a million extra people, and we are not building anywhere near those houses [inaudible 00:18:06], it’s not a silver bullet.

Rafael Epstein:

Sorry, we’re not doing immigration now.

Colleen Harkin:

But there’s no interconnected is what I’m trying to say, is that this CGT thing is not going to create cheaper and more houses.

Emma Dawson:

It’s going to rebalance the market over time.

Rafael Epstein:

I think Colleen’s argument there is that it might not have the impact that everybody is expecting. I will get to calls in a moment.

Rafael Epstein:

Emma Dawson and Colleen Harkin with me, so too Barry, who… No, sorry, not Barry, Megan, who’s in Warrandyte. What do you want to mention about Grace Tame, Megan?

Megan:

Oh, hi, Raf. Look, I’m a feminist and a big supporter of Grace Tame, yet I just have to call out the fact that how can she possibly be offended and call out Albanese for saying she’s difficult when she’s verbally berated and name called so many other people? You can’t have it both ways. If you’re going to hold someone to a certain standard and not call you difficult, then don’t call other people names. Don’t also bring yourself down to that level and verbally berate people. I just think that you lead by example in life, don’t you?

Rafael Epstein:

Oh, okay. That’s a good line. Thank you. And Mohan’s calling from Oakley. What did you want to mention, Mohan?

Mohan:

Yep. Good morning, Raf.

Rafael Epstein:

Morning.

Mohan:

I just wanted to say, why can’t we just tax wealth? You can inherit only when you look after the person. If the society looks after the person, society owns the property of the person. As simple as it is.

Rafael Epstein:

All right. So if you use public aged care, you’d need to hand over even more of your estate, like a death tax?

Mohan:

No, you don’t have to hand over. The society owns it. As simple as it is.

Rafael Epstein:

Yeah. Okay.

Mohan:

The children don’t have any right over your property if they don’t look after you.

Rafael Epstein:

Okay. I guess that’s a version of inheritance tax, so I’m happy to float that as I don’t think this federal government’s going there. In fact, I reckon you could put money on this federal government not going there.

Just in the time I have left, the new liberal leader in Victoria, Jess Wilson, has announced a housing policy. It is essentially to wind back what the state government’s doing in the middle ring and to have more apartment towers in the city and faster land release on the edge of the cities.

I’ll start with you, Colleen. Is that a defensive or an offensive strategy? Are they just trying to keep the seats they’ve got in a place like Brighton and Kew, or are they actively trying to attract new voters?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, I think it’s probably both, because if you live in the suburbs, you live there for a reason. You want the three bedroom, brick veneer, backyard, all of that kind of stuff. That’s why you live there. And so the state government’s current plan of high-rise in those areas is really unpalatable to the people who already live there. And those who live in the inner city live in that sort of dense urban environment. So I actually do genuinely think it’s a good plan

Rafael Epstein:

Winner?

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, no, I think it sort of satisfies more people. I know where I live and they’re talking about very high high-rise, it’s really angered people because you move out to the suburbs because you want that lifestyle. That’s what comes with it. And to have that completely changed is… people just don’t want it. So if I already live in an area where there are lots of high-rises and high density living, I’m probably comfortable with a little bit more. But the opening up of land and expanding, I think that’s also really important because that’s how you get… everyone climbs that ladder.

Rafael Epstein:

To be clear, my understanding of that policy, I wish I could ask them about it on air, they’re not opening up extra land, but they are speeding up the land that is already ear marked on the edge for a release?

Colleen Harkin:

Already there, yeah.

Rafael Epstein:

Emma?

Emma Dawson:

I think it’s likely to be popular, but it’s not good policy. We already have an oversupply of high-rise apartments in the CBD. We’ve had them for five years. We can’t rent them, we can’t fill them. And urban sprawl, Melbourne’s geographically one of the largest cities, and by its population, in the world. It can take you two hours to drive from one edge of Melbourne to the other without traffic lights. So no, I don’t think it’s a good housing policy. I think it is very clearly a pitch at those very angry. It’s about holding onto James Newbury’s [inaudible 00:03:53].

Colleen Harkin:

But doesn’t that mean, what you just said, which is true, that there is a dearth of empty properties in those high-rises. Doesn’t that actually tell us that people don’t really want live in those places?

Emma Dawson:

So that’s right.

Rafael Epstein:

Well, they might not want to live in the apartments in that location.

Emma Dawson:

That’s right.

Rafael Epstein:

Maybe they’re interesting in being-

Emma Dawson:

Well, and there’s a big difference between a high-rise apartment in the CBD and a three-story townhouse in a middle ring suburb.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, a three-story wouldn’t be considered. I know where I live, they’re talking about 20 stories.

Emma Dawson:

No one’s getting this absolutely perfectly right, in my view. I think that sort of gentle density push that’s coming from people like Grattan Institute’s a good thing, right?

Rafael Epstein:

Well, very central that the state government plan has three to six stories within about 500 metres of the train station.

Emma Dawson:

Yeah, yeah.

Rafael Epstein:

And then 5, 10, 12, 15, occasionally 20, right next to the train station.

Emma Dawson:

The part that’s missing from this whole conversation on both sides for me is the type of housing that people need, particularly, and I’ve got a big interest in this, but older women, people that need to age in place, they can’t be living in three and four-story townhouses. They need single level.

Rafael Epstein:

Single level.

Emma Dawson:

With a small garden, in the suburbs they’ve lived in their whole lives so they can downsize from that family home and release it for a younger family.

Rafael Epstein:

You can’t tell the builders what to build.

Emma Dawson:

No, you can’t. Which is why at some point, yes, the government needs to step in and build a lot more social housing. We’re doing a lot better than we were five years ago, but we need more.

Rafael Epstein:

Very quickly from both of you, is it a net vote winner?

Colleen Harkin:

Yes, I think so.

Rafael Epstein:

What do you think, Emma?

Emma Dawson:

I think it’s a net vote winner in the seats they’re trying to sandbag, but I don’t think it’s going to persuade a lot of younger people that want an affordable home, and I don’t think it’s going to solve the real problems in the housing crisis, which is really poor people.

Rafael Epstein:

How many times does every conversation come back to housing?

Colleen Harkin:

Housing, housing, housing.

Emma Dawson:

Yeah.

Rafael Epstein:

I’m glad you mentioned that thing about the banks, because the banks in this country are dominated by mortgages.

Emma Dawson:

That’s right.

Rafael Epstein:

It’s very unusual.

Emma Dawson:

That’s right.

Rafael Epstein:

When you are not preparing surveys for people on what they think about issues like tax policy, Emma, what are you reading, watching? I don’t know if there’s a new person on Instagram you are following, I don’t know.

Emma Dawson:

I’m not on Instagram.

Rafael Epstein:

That’s smart.

Emma Dawson:

I’ve just got into the first three episodes of season two of Paradise on Disney.

Rafael Epstein:

Oh, and?

Emma Dawson:

It’s good. Yeah. It’s a shift from the first season.

Rafael Epstein:

Okay.

Emma Dawson:

So if people watched it, it’s a kind of dystopian sci-fi.

Rafael Epstein:

I didn’t finish season one of Paradise. Should I pursue season two?

Emma Dawson:

Yeah, look, yes. The opening episode’s a little bit like that episode in The Last of Us that carved out that gay couple and it’s Shailene Woodley and she’s a tour guide at Graceland before the events happen, and then she locks down in the basement at Graceland. So there’s a sort of self-contained episode that really does pull you back in, because like you, towards the end of the last season, I was getting a little bit…

Rafael Epstein:

This another post-apocalyptic, what would you do sort of thing?

Emma Dawson:

That’s right. That’s right. But I tune in again because I’m willing to give Sterling K. Brown a second chance on anything.

Rafael Epstein:

Oh, Sterling K. Brown. So fantastic. Okay, so that’s Paradise. That’s streaming on Apple.

Emma Dawson:

Disney.

Rafael Epstein:

Disney, thank you. Colleen?

Colleen Harkin:

Look, after your recommendation last week, we did watch Inglourious Basterds.

Rafael Epstein:

And?

Colleen Harkin:

I might be over Tarantino by now.

Rafael Epstein:

I’m sorry.

Colleen Harkin:

Look…

Rafael Epstein:

I’m down on Tarantino, but I do think it’s one of his better ones.

Colleen Harkin:

I just don’t understand why every so often he just has to throw in something that’s extraordinarily violent.

Emma Dawson:

Yeah.

Rafael Epstein:

Yeah.

Colleen Harkin:

And it doesn’t actually add to the story, really.

Rafael Epstein:

You could say that about every single Tarantino movie ever.

Emma Dawson:

Tarantino film. Yep.

Colleen Harkin:

It’s just shocking. I did enjoy it, but it was kind of like I did have to hide my face a few times watching that one. But on a lighter note, I don’t know whether AI or whatever has got me again, but Warburton Lane in the CBD, I’ve had an image that shows me that it is being redone in a Parisian mural.

Emma Dawson:

Oh.

Colleen Harkin:

And I quite like those Melbourne Laneway things.

Rafael Epstein:

And we know it’s real or we think it’s real?

Colleen Harkin:

I’m not sure. I’m going to go and have a look on the weekend.

Rafael Epstein:

Okay. Warburton Lane.

Colleen Harkin:

Warburton Lane.

Rafael Epstein:

And off the top of your head, where is that in the city?

Colleen Harkin:

Warburton Lane, in between Queen and Elizabeth, just off Little Bourke.

Rafael Epstein:

Okay. Queen and Elizabeth, off Little Bourke?

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah.

Rafael Epstein:

Okay.

Colleen Harkin:

And it’s one of those little alleyways that is named after an iron man of the 1880s or something like that, a tradie.

Emma Dawson:

I’m headed that way today. I’ll go and have a look.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, and so it was all done with Parisian murals, so I’m going to go and have a look.

Rafael Epstein:

Yeah, nice.

Colleen Harkin:

See if it’s real.

Rafael Epstein:

Colleen. Word on the street, Colleen Harkin. Fantastic. Colleen Harkin’s director of the schools programme at the Institute of Public Affairs, and Emma Dawson’s the executive director of the Chifley Research Centre. Thank you very much.

Emma Dawson:

Thank you.

Colleen Harkin:

Thank you. Bye-bye.

This transcript of Colleen Harkin speaking on Weekly Wrap Mornings – ABC Radio Melbourne from 27 February 2026 has been edited for clarity.