Colleen Harkin on The Weekly Wrap Mornings ABC Radio Melbourne – 3 July 2026

Waleed Aly:

Well, we’re not going to wrap it up in five minutes, we’re going to do it in about 20 or so. Emma Dawson is executive director of the Chifley Research Centre. Have a guess which party that is connected to? And Colleen Harkin, Director of Education at the Institute of Public Affairs, have a guess which party she’s connected to? Hello ladies.

Emma Dawson:

Good morning to you both.

Colleen Harkin:

Good morning.

Waleed Aly:

Colleen, have you joined One Nation yet?

Colleen Harkin:

Yes.

Waleed Aly:

Officially?

Colleen Harkin:

Yes.

Waleed Aly:

When did you do it?

Colleen Harkin:

I’m a card carrying member.

Waleed Aly:

Have you got the card here?

Colleen Harkin:

No. I haven’t actually received it.

Waleed Aly:

I want to know what colour it is.

Emma Dawson:

It would be orange, wouldn’t it?

Colleen Harkin:

I’ll show it to you when I receive it. Yeah, no, I have. And for what it’s worth, it is worth putting in the context that my resignation of the Liberal Party went into the media, and I did not send it to the media. My resignation was sent privately to the executive and somebody on the executive put it in the media. And that is and of itself part of the problematic culture that exists in the party that no one should have known. Do you know what I mean? It’s a private matter.

Waleed Aly:

But you’ve spoken about it publicly and you’re no longer a member now.

Colleen Harkin:

No, but I’m saying before I resigned, put my email in and within 30 minutes it was printed in full in Herald Sun by somebody on the executive. So my comment about that is that it’s an own goal. It created a whole lot of conversation that didn’t need to be had. I could have just got her an email back that said, “Okay, thanks. See you later.”

Emma Dawson:

I think that’s a bit disingenuous, Colleen. It would’ve come out. You’ve been a public face of the party in many ways, not least here on the radio every couple of weeks. So I’m not surprised. It would’ve got into the… I understand what you’re saying. You didn’t leak it. Somebody else did, but it was always going to happen.

Colleen Harkin:

It was in the Herald Sun before I’d even told my family.

Waleed Aly:

I just would’ve thought that of all the things you could point to in the Liberal Party that have to do with infighting and perhaps lack of propriety in the way people are treating each other, this would just not be on the list.

Colleen Harkin:

Correct. Correct. I agree. Yeah.

Waleed Aly:

Yeah. Is this your main issue?

Colleen Harkin:

No. No.

Waleed Aly:

I don’t mean your resignation there.

Colleen Harkin:

No, my reason is more policy based.

Waleed Aly:

Which policies specifically [inaudible 00:02:18]?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, for example-

Emma Dawson:

[inaudible 00:02:20] because I can’t identify any policies.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, for example, they do wax and wane a bit. For example, I have a great interest in education and I don’t see any genuine commitment to dealing with what’s going on in the education system, either in terms of teacher work conditions or the curriculum or academic standards. And I genuinely believe that education is the foundation of a nation and the future and we’ve got real problems in our schools.

Waleed Aly:

So what’s One Nation’s education policy?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, it is being framed and I’m very supportive of the scenario about dealing with academic results, dealing with teacher conditions. The job of a teacher now is absolutely impossible.

Waleed Aly:

Agreed.

Colleen Harkin:

They cannot do it.

Waleed Aly:

And parents are largely to blame for it, frankly. I’m talking about my generation.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, correct. Parents are pretty extremely demanding, but that’s also because the framework exists that says every child is entitled to individual learning programmes. It’s a physical impossibility for teachers to do that. And there’s a lot of ideology that’s in the curriculum that is not focusing on core standards. So in Australia, almost half of our 15-year olds don’t meet minimum benchmarks in literacy and numeracy. That’s a real problem for the country going forward.

Waleed Aly:

So I understand the criticism. I still just don’t know what.

Colleen Harkin:

Oh, there’s a lot. I mean, I could talk ad nausea about what needs to be done.

Waleed Aly:

But what makes you think One Nation’s the vehicle that will do anything for that?

Colleen Harkin:

Because they already have a view that I’m aligned with. They already have a broad view.

Waleed Aly:

Which is what?

Colleen Harkin:

That what has to happen is a stream down or a slim down curriculum that actually focuses on core principles, core material in literacy and numeracy, to return parental rights in terms of what content kids are exposed to before they do it.

Waleed Aly:

Parental rights?

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah.

Emma Dawson:

To me, that just sounds like throwing fuel on the fire. We’ve just admitted that a big part of the problem is parents and their expectations and their demands. So if you’re then going to say, “Well, our policy is to let parents set the curriculum”

Colleen Harkin:

No, this is the issue. You can’t do any one thing in isolation. So say for example, you can’t give teachers a pay rise but still demand the same workplace conditions from them. You have to address it all. The education system needs a full overhaul and part of that is dealing with who’s in the… 16% of all six year old kids in classroom are on NDIS. It’s impossible. So you have to actually unpick what is a school for, who is it for? What is a teacher’s job? And you have to do the hard decisions about saying we cannot keep going down this path.

Emma Dawson:

I would be delighted to see a well-thought-out, well constructed, evidence based, informed policy from One Nation to attack some of these issues. Colleen, maybe when you join, you can become their education policy lead.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, I’d be very happy to do that.

Emma Dawson:

But I doubt very much that based on what One Nation’s got out there already on everything that Pauline Hanson has told us on what little she’s given us around her policy positions, that they’re the ones that are going to fix the education system. And for a start, she wants to cut government spending by $90 billion a year. We only spend $50 billion on education.

Colleen Harkin:

No, that’s not correct. If you put state and federal budgets together, it is more than defence in the country.

Emma Dawson:

She’s talking about the federal budget.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, but if you put state and federal together, the budget is extraordinary. Excuse me. It’s more than doubled in the last 10 years and our results are going backwards.

Waleed Aly:

What’s the theory here? To slash spending on education and improve their education system?

Colleen Harkin:

No, it’s actually where does the money go and what’s it used for?

Waleed Aly:

Yeah, but if you’re still committing to cutting it.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, but this is the issue. Money’s not the problem. There is a wash of money, but what happens in a classroom is an impossible job. Look, for example, our behaviour of kids in classrooms is one of the worst in the world. 71st out of 80 in the OECD in terms of discipline and [inaudible 00:06:23].

Emma Dawson:

So we’re going to bring back the strap in primary school?

Colleen Harkin:

That’s an absurd [inaudible 00:06:29]. No, but what a teacher needs to be able to do is say, for example, immediately you won’t have all of your lunchtime. They can’t even do that. So if a kid misbehaves, a teacher has to sit down and do what they call restorative practises, and then the onus is on the teacher to sit down and record all of that, to have a meeting with the other kid who is involved in things. And the meanwhile, the other 24 kids in the class are not doing their learning. [inaudible 00:06:55].

Waleed Aly:

There’s two little tensions I notice here. One is you mentioned things like a lot of kids are on NDIS and that takes up a lot of time of teachers, and so on. Well, that’s a federal government thing. There’s nothing you’re going to be able to do in a One Nation policy at the state level.

Colleen Harkin:

No, you have to be able to dovetail them. You have to be able to work with.

Waleed Aly:

What does that mean?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, if you’ve got a good education minister that can just say, “We’re just not going to subscribe to this.”

Waleed Aly:

Subscribe to what?

Colleen Harkin:

An education minister has the authority to make decisions about what is in the curriculum and how the state education programme is run.

Waleed Aly:

That’s got nothing to do with NDIS kids in classrooms.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, it does because you could say that, for example, and I’m not [inaudible 00:07:40] One Nation policy here, don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying from my perspective that you could say that any one classroom will only have, for example, one child on NDIS.

Waleed Aly:

But what do you do then when there are more kids?

Emma Dawson:

Where do the rest of them go?

Colleen Harkin:

You create other schools. You create other environments. I’m not suggesting that there’s no place for people, right? But you cannot have four or five or six kids in any one classroom that are on individual learning programmes. It’s physically impossible.

Waleed Aly:

The other tension I noticed is you don’t like the individual stuff, but you do then want to hand over a lot of parental rights to object to things. Now that sounds more like individuation to me.

Colleen Harkin:

No. So that is, for example, in terms of gender identity, climate change stuff, the stats on kids suffering from climate anxiety is enormous, for example. And so parents have a right to know what is the content that their kid’s going to receive that has a risk factor to it of their child getting really seriously anxious.

Waleed Aly:

So that’s a version of safetyism, isn’t it?

Colleen Harkin:

Correct.

Waleed Aly:

That’s meant to be a woke kind of idea.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, parents would be very surprised about some of the stuff that’s in the curriculum and that they don’t know that their child is being exposed to.

Waleed Aly:

Okay. Let’s leave education there because we haven’t even started what we’re meant to talk about. It’s 16 minutes past 10. Emma Dawson, executive director of the Chiefly Research Centre, Colleen Harken. I mean, it’s just so interesting, everything that Colleen’s involved in at the moment, Director of Education Institute of Public Affairs, card carrying member of One Nation. That is a quote.

Emma Dawson:

Hasn’t got the card yet. Be fair.

Waleed Aly:

Can we please talk about Big Build? Emma, here is Jacinta Allan. She’s being prevailed upon to call a Royal Commission into this and she doesn’t want to do it and here’s how she’s framing that.

Jacinta Allan:

We have had a Royal Commission in this country and it did not change the culture. It went after workers, it went after workers’ wages. It cost tens of millions of dollars. It took years. It didn’t change the culture.

Waleed Aly:

So it’s all about cultural change. We do read this morning that there are labour MPs that are saying, “Can we please just do this Royal Commission? It needs to happen. And if we don’t do, it’ll be a Liberal One Nation Royal Commission.” What do you think, Emma?

Emma Dawson:

I think that’s a valid concern. The Royal Commission that the premier is referring to there was the Royal Commission into unions back in 2014 kicked off by Tony Abbott. It did cost $46 million. It did only find one case of criminal wrongdoing. It was, in my view, a bit of a so-called witch hunt. I don’t think that that’s what we’re talking about now. And I’m on the record as saying, I think we are a bit royal commission happy in this country. Whenever there’s a big problem, we throw a royal commission at it and then people shove it off to the side.

Waleed Aly:

It’s the way we show that we’re serious.

Emma Dawson:

That’s right. And I think a lot of it’s performative. In this instance, I think we’ve reached the point where you can’t resist it anymore. And I think the concerns being expressed by that anonymous Labour MP are valid, that if it’s not set up now and the terms of reference aren’t set in a way that ensures that we look beyond the union movement, because the reports into what happened on the Big Build include a lot more than just union malfeasance. There are contractors and suppliers and all kinds of people involved in corrupt activity, it would appear, allegedly. And so if we don’t grasp the nettle now, then I think it is likely that an incoming one nation liberal coalition government might set up another witch hunt style royal commission that isn’t going to get to the bottom of this widespread cultural rot that seems to be in the building industries.

So while I’m sympathetic to the argument and I actually think the Big Build overall has been a very good thing for the state. We’ve got more schools, we’ve got more hospitals, we’ve got better transport links, we’re investing in the future. There is sufficient evidence and sufficient concern in the community, well-placed concern, I think, that it is time to say, “Look, we can’t keep just hoping this will go away. It’s not going to go away.” And if we want to get to the bottom of what are deep cultural problems that go way beyond the unions, and let’s remember most workers are not involved. Most workers just go to work and do their job. Then I think it’s time to say, “Okay, we’ve got to take a proper look at it.”

Waleed Aly:

So Colleen, just into Allan’s argument is, well, Royal Commission’s pointless, we’ve had them, et cetera, et cetera. The culture needs to change. Here’s what we’ve done that actually does matter. We’ve beefed up police powers. They’ve made later 90 charges or made 90… I can’t remember. I think it was charges. So in other words, this stuff’s happening, play on. If that’s true, now feel free to say, that’s not true, but explain why. But if that’s true, what else would you do?

Colleen Harkin:

I think the issue here is who has jurisdiction and over what? I would normally say a Royal Commission’s a waste of time and money because usually you want to know the answer before you even start it. But in this situation, even the police are sort of saying they can’t investigate properly because people are fearful of coming forward and that they actually don’t have the power to investigate some of this stuff.

Waleed Aly:

What power don’t they have? I’m interested in this [inaudible 00:12:54].

Emma Dawson:

[inaudible 00:12:55] question. No one’s been able to tell me [inaudible 00:12:56].

Waleed Aly:

Because I’ve heard the police say this, but I don’t actually know what it means.

Emma Dawson:

No, neither do I.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, I think also part of the problem here is that it’s not illegal to say when we get that contract that we need 25 extra very well paid people to work on a project. If you actually helicopter up and you look at what’s going on or allegedly going on, it’s not actually illegal as far as I’m not a lawyer, but as far as I can tell, if you get the contract and you say, “Well, we need a thousand people on site rather than 500.”

Emma Dawson:

That’s a contract negotiation, but that’s not.

Colleen Harkin:

That is the allegation about a lot of the blowouts is that it is unnecessary, if we can use that word, employment arrangements.

Emma Dawson:

So I’ve read the David Hayward report that was commissioned by the unions to sort of push back against Jeffrey Watson’s 15 billion dollar figure and I’ve got a lot of respect for David Hayward. He’s a very independent and seasoned academic, and I think he makes some good points in that report. The 15 billion was sort of a guesswork figure and there are a lot of other reasons that the costs blew out, but the point we can’t just say-

Waleed Aly:

It’s also money going to-

Emma Dawson:

Exactly. It’s where the money’s going. It’s who’s involved. It’s the intimidation tactics. Those things are illegal. It’s a contract negotiation is one thing, but threatening people.

Colleen Harkin:

Oh, for sure.

Emma Dawson:

And I think this is the point, this is where I get stuck with the premier when she says she’s not sure why people haven’t gone to the police if they’ve got evidence. I know why they haven’t gone to the police.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, everybody knows why.

Emma Dawson:

Because you’re worried about your family. So it is becoming an endemic, but it’s not new. It’s come to the fore because we’ve spent a lot of money on public infrastructure over the last decade and what that has done has revealed some real problems in the industry that have been there for a decade.

Waleed Aly:

This is the question for Labour though, Emma, isn’t it? Because even if I just go by that smattering of texts I might get from people who are not Labour fans, their argument seems to be, no, this isn’t an event. This is a phenomenon. This is in the DNA. This is just what Labour is. They’ve always got these relationships. They always apologise for them or cover up or move on. They’re always deeply in curious about exactly what’s going on and that’s what we’ve seen here. The revelations are about the government not really wanting to know and perhaps not looking at places they should. Is this an endemic Labour Party problem?

Emma Dawson:

No, it’s an endemic political problem. I think the difference between the two parties is that Labour does things and builds things and that when you do take on that kind of economic risk and investment, then you are more likely to come up against these structural problems. I don’t think it’s fair to say this is who Labour is.

Waleed Aly:

The relationship with the CFMEU and the nature of…

Emma Dawson:

The nature of the Union Movement and the nature of the Union Movement’s relationship with and to the Labour Party is another question. The Labour Party was formed as the political wing of the Union Movement originally.

Waleed Aly:

But the point is that this is the nature of it, right? If that’s the way that union behaves.

Emma Dawson:

It’s the industry, right? And it’s not just the labour aligned parts of the industry. A lot of the construction companies, the businesses that are involved in tendering for these, these are large businesses. They’re not labour aligned. A lot of them are politically opposed to the Labour Party. It’s not a labour culture is what I’m saying. It’s an industry culture.

Colleen Harkin:

The Federal legislation that was passed just the other day actually gives a carve out to be able to discriminate, to give contracts to union work. So that creates the scenario where there’s the ability to have preferential treatment to unions, which has the absolute likely risk of victorianizing Australia. And the way big projects are run.

Emma Dawson:

So we can get a deep conversation about what cultural and structural problems drive this corruption. I could start talking about the shareholder culture, the demands of business of capital and what drives best, lowest common denominator outcomes. To say that putting in place in procurement policies a requirement that workers are either unionised or have the same conditions fought for by unions is actually the basis of having a labour government that protects workers in the first place. Those things being corrupted, absolutely unacceptable, but this idea that it’s all down to union culture, it’s all down to labour culture, a lot of it is to do with the way that our financial system works, the way that our business ecosystem is set up and that cultural problem is not of the Labour Party. [inaudible 00:17:44].

Waleed Aly:

But if the allegation is that the labour government didn’t want to know, was warned and didn’t want to know, that’s a labour problem.

Emma Dawson:

So who’s made that allegation?

Waleed Aly:

Well, that’s what’s come out in the reporting over the weekend. There were warnings going back as far as 2022. And in 2024 when this broke, the response of the premier was, well this is all a surprise.

Emma Dawson:

But, again, I would say, who’s warning whom? What were the warnings? Is the allegation that someone went to Jacinta Allan or wrote to Jacinta Allan and said, this is specifically going on and she put that letter in the bin. I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about.

Waleed Aly:

So you don’t think there’s been an in-curiosity here?

Emma Dawson:

I don’t know. I don’t think that in-curiosity is the right word, Waleed. I think there may be some when you’re in the throes of running a state and doing big investments are kind of inability to get to that granular level of… Who knows? The point I’m making is you can’t just say they’re looking away and that’s labour culture. That’s nonsense.

Colleen Harkin:

But how could you have a project that financially… even if you just look at the fiscal responsibility, how could you have a project that is so over budget and no one’s digging deeper to find out why?

Emma Dawson:

Because we’re spending a lot of money on very expensive things that previous governments in living memory have not really done in this state. And I think that the outcomes will be the main thing that’s remembered in 50 years time, but I’m not defending people turning away from corruption or overlooking reports of illegal behaviour. That is clearly unacceptable.

Waleed Aly:

[inaudible 00:19:20].

Emma Dawson:

That’s why I kicked off by saying, yes, it’s time to look into this. What I’m rejecting is the idea that is often perpetuated by those on the opposite side of politics, that this is all due down to labour or union culture and their thugs. The vast majority of members of unions are actually women in the care professions.

Waleed Aly:

I don’t think anyone’s to know that. I think they’re talking about a very specific-

Emma Dawson:

We are, and that’s why I’m saying it’s an industry specific culture, not a thing that is endemic to Labour as a party or Labour as a movement.

Waleed Aly:

27 minutes past 10:00, we are running rapidly out of time, Emma Dawson, Executive Director of the Chifley Research Centre, Colleen Harkin, Director of Education at the Institute of Public Affairs, and now card carrying member of One Nation. This makes talking about the Liberal Party a little less fun now, Colleen.

Colleen Harkin:

It does, actually. Yeah.

Waleed Aly:

So Moira Deeming, the Liberal Party will make a decision on her tonight at 6:30 PM. When I say on her, I mean her membership in the party. Now we’re hearing that she’s going to turn around and sue again about something else. This is after the allegations, the criminal allegations that the police kind of dismissed. This is a party that cannot stop suing itself and attacking each other in all sorts of ways.

Emma Dawson:

You want to talk about a cultural problem in a party…

Colleen Harkin:

Moira is in court right now. There was a 9:30 hearing for an injunction on that meeting tonight, and it has been adjourned to this afternoon. So it’ll be interesting to see. I don’t know how the court would have jurisdiction over this because the Liberal Party Constitution is very clear about the powers of the executive. They have fairly significant reserve powers, and this is essentially a member-to-member issue. So I’m not sure how the Supreme Court will have jurisdiction over this. It’ll be interesting to see if it says it does. And then the executive will meet, presumably if it goes ahead, to meet tonight to decide what to do.

I’ve obviously been intimately involved in all of this sort of stuff in the past, and the trouble is that it will probably continue because even if they decide to dis-endorse Moira, she still is a sitting member of parliament. She has parliamentary privilege until November. And it does stem from where’s the consistency of the application of rules, in that, I don’t want to revisit John Pesutto, but he effectively did the same thing. Made a false allegation, wouldn’t apologise, a year and a half in court and then gave him $1.5 million. So Moira still has quite a significant level of support within the party. There’s lots of people who would like to see her go.

Waleed Aly:

So what happens tonight?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, what will happen is that the 18 people and the executive will meet. She’ll be given 10 minutes to state her case and then she’ll leave the room and it will be discussion and a motion-

Waleed Aly:

Is there only one solution here, or one outcome, I should say?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, if I was still on executive, I would think not. I think there are multiple ways out of this. I’m not sure that that will be the pathway that they pursue, but it will go to a vote and there are 18 people there and it’ll just be majority. It has to be three quarters.

Waleed Aly:

So you’re not prepared to predict?

Colleen Harkin:

Not really. I mean, I have a view.

Waleed Aly:

I just assume that it should be.

Emma Dawson:

I think that they’re going to kick her out. I mean, they have had enough of this and this goes to… What happens to the Liberal Party when it starts pre-selecting people that really aren’t of its tribe, that really don’t understand its politics, that don’t understand its own-

Colleen Harkin:

You’re talking political-

Emma Dawson:

Political.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah. I mean, I think policy should be considered aligned with the Liberal Party.

Emma Dawson:

Well…

Colleen Harkin:

I think you’re talking about political experience.

Emma Dawson:

I’m talking about her inability to understand politics and how politics works and that she’s joining a party and joining a caucus. But I also think that some of her views are on the extreme end of what most traditional Liberal Party voters would support, but there’s a growing number of quite fundamentalist views coming into the Liberal Party. And I think it’s one of the reasons that-

But I don’t think they’ve got anything to do with today.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, it’s-

Emma Dawson:

It’s what goes back-

Waleed Aly:

The thing that is remarkable to me about the Victorian Liberal Party is, I’ve said this before, so apologies for repeating, but they’re not fighting over ideas.

Emma Dawson:

No.

Colleen Harkin:

No.

Emma Dawson:

That’s right.

Waleed Aly:

At the federal level, this is definitely what happened. You see the factions line up over big ideas and that’s a problem, but it’s something. This is just-

Emma Dawson:

And that’s why people in Victoria are absolutely fed up with politics across the board. It’s why people are going, like Colleen’s going to One Nation, because the Liberal Party’s fighting amongst itself over personal issues, suing each other in court, Labor’s fighting with its own movement to try and defend the indefensible on what should be nothing but a good news story for Victoria.

Colleen Harkin:

And just for the record, the part that I’m still involved with is the Pesutto case at the Supreme Court about the $1.5 million. That will continue, but it had nothing to do with Moira and John. That was about governance and fiduciary responsibilities.

Emma Dawson:

And everyone out there’s eyes glaze over. “Why are they not talking about us?”

Colleen Harkin:

Oh, absolutely.

Waleed Aly:

Of course.

Colleen Harkin:

And so that’s the frustration with people is about, who are they and what are they doing?

Emma Dawson:

There’s also a fair degree of narcissism involved, let me say. Call me old fashioned, but I like politicians that go into public life in the betterment of other people, not in pursuit of their own personal profile. And I think there’s a point at which too many people are making more money in politics than they ever could-

Waleed Aly:

You have to go back to Aristotle if you want-

Colleen Harkin:

And again, this should have all been behind closed doors.

Waleed Aly:

Colleen, very quickly. Who’s going to lead one notion?

Emma Dawson:

Oh, I can’t tell you.

Colleen Harkin:

Colleen is. Colleen is going to be the Cory Bernardi of Victorian politics. You watch. At least she’s got some policy ideas.

Waleed Aly:

Isn’t it remarkable that a party with no leader-

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah. Has got so much.

Emma Dawson:

We’ll see how it plays out.

Waleed Aly:

Now you have to share something cultural, please.

Emma Dawson:

You’ve already talked about this on the show this week, but I want to give a plug to a book by, I will admit, a friend of mine, Matthew Ricketson and Andrew Dodd called Getting Murdoched. You interviewed them I think on Monday.

Waleed Aly:

Tuesday.

Emma Dawson:

Tuesday. I emceed the launch with Malcolm Turnbull the other night. It’s not another biography of Murdoch, it’s an investigation into how his empire wields power over some well-known people, but also ordinary people. And the dedication in the book is simply, “To the bullied.” With whatever side you’re on, if you care about media and its role as the fourth estate and its impact on our culture and our politics, it’s an essential read.

Colleen Harkin:

What’s it called?

Emma Dawson:

It’s called Getting Murdoched.

Waleed Aly:

It’s specifically about what they say is a uniquely Murdochian practise across the world of picking a target and relentlessly… The endless-

Emma Dawson:

It’s the original cancel culture.

Waleed Aly:

Yeah, that’s kind of what it’s doing. Colleen.

Colleen Harkin:

I have something not nearly as intellectual as that. A Netflix thing called I Will Find You.

Waleed Aly:

Oh, I saw that.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah.

Emma Dawson:

With a homegrown boy-

Colleen Harkin:

That’s why I watched it, because it was…

Waleed Aly:

Oh, I didn’t see it. My wife was watching it and I was trying not to watch it and I-

Colleen Harkin:

Sam Worthington.

Waleed Aly:

Yes.

Colleen Harkin:

And I finished it last night. It’s about eight episodes and I’m not sure whether to recommend it or not because it loses its way quite a lot in the middle of its-

Emma Dawson:

Shocking for a Harlan Coben.

Colleen Harkin:

No, but it is interesting. It’s got a lot of twists and turns and it’s worth watching. So that’s eight episodes.

Waleed Aly:

There’s a big twist in it that I couldn’t-

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, there’s-

Emma Dawson:

Yeah, there is a big twist.

Colleen Harkin:

It loses its way-

Emma Dawson:

All of those Harlan Coben adaptations that are on Netflix, I find myself giving them a go and then I think, “Why am I watching this?” But you can’t stop because-

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, correct. There’s enough that goes on-

Emma Dawson:

They’re terrible, but they’re absolutely…

Colleen Harkin:

Look, if you’ve got nothing else to do for eight hours of your life.

Waleed Aly:

You want to recommend that?

Colleen Harkin:

That’s all right.

Waleed Aly:

If you’ve got nothing else on-

Emma Dawson:

Stick it on in the background.

Waleed Aly:

… I guess you could.

Emma Dawson:

The World Cup’s on, people.

Waleed Aly:

Yeah, that is true. Emma, Colleen, thank you.

Emma Dawson:

Yeah, no problem.

Colleen Harkin:

Thank you.

Waleed Aly:

Emma Dawson, Executive Director of the Chifley Research Centre, Colleen Harkin, Director of Education at the Institute of Public Affairs, now a One Nation member. Do we need three Wrappers now, that you go… I don’t know how you manage this new landscape. I did get this text though that’s nice. “I’d love to have an hour on The Wrap each week. It’s insightful and relevant.” That’s from Jay in Frankston South.

Emma Dawson:

That’s very nice.

Waleed Aly:

I got to say, that normally is people just getting angry at whoever they disagree with. So that’s welcome and refreshing. 25 minutes to 11:00.

This transcript of Colleen Harkin on ABC Radio Melbourne from 3 July 2026 has been edited for clarity.