Colleen Harkin on The Weekly Wrap Mornings ABC Radio Melbourne – 30 January 2026

Rafael Epstein:

Politicians have got a private place to rage. Why don’t tennis players? Thoughts? Give us a call. We’re joined by Emma Dawson. She’s an executive director. She is the executive director of the Chifley Research Centre. Good morning, Emma.

Emma Dawson:

Good morning.

Rafael Epstein:

There’s only one. There’s only one person in charge. And Colleen Harkin is part of, but she is the director of the schools programme and the thing she is part of is the Institute of Public Affairs. Good morning, Colleen.

Colleen Harkin:

Good morning to you both.

Emma Dawson:

Hello.

Rafael Epstein:

Colleen, I’m going to start with you. It’s your side of the fence. The National Party purported to be the best attuned to many Jews feelings in the wake of Bondi, but then chose the National Day of Mourning to split from the coalition. The Liberal Party were going to their friend’s funeral and decided to have a meeting trying to divvy up the spoils of leadership. Am I being unkind in characterising things this way or is that just stupid behaviour?

Colleen Harkin:

Look, I mean, yes, in part, you’re not being very fair. But I will say that in my view, the Nationals did the right thing in not supporting the hate speech laws. They were the only people with true integrity to sort of say, “This is being rushed. The consequences are enormous.”

Rafael Epstein:

But terrible timing. They didn’t have to … So I hear your argument, and to be honest, I’m surprised that it took the Liberals and Nats this long to work out that the action they were calling for would end up dividing them because they’ve been divided on the issue for days.

Colleen Harkin:

On the issue for a long time. Yeah.

Rafael Epstein:

But it is a bit more about timing and the way you say to the country, “Hey, we’re thinking about you.” They’re taking a backward step in that dimension, aren’t they?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, I mean, yeah, possibly, but I’m sort of looking at the broader Australian issue. I think that people … Hastie, for example, he had a huge following that he had cultivated over a long period of time and it’s kind of imploded on him.

Rafael Epstein:

Oh, do you think?

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, absolutely. If you look at the commentary on social media, he had a very strong rapport, strong support. People in our sort of saying, “But you turned.”

Rafael Epstein:

And that’s because he voted for the-

Colleen Harkin:

Because he voted for-

Rafael Epstein:

What I call the hate group part of the legislation.

Colleen Harkin:

Right. Yep. And part of the problem here is that if the liberal government ever does get back into … Liberal party ever does get back into government, they’re stuck with this very bad legislation because they helped get it across the line. There’s no doubt that it is problematic legislation. It should never have been passed. It was rushed. The consequences are enormous. The fact that the Nationals and Liberals split for the second time in, what is it, nine or 10 months or something is not surprising. And I think that the Nationals are at risk of being taken over by One Nation because they’re the most vulnerable in the seats where One Nation is polling very well. So I think for the Nationals, imagine if they came into a coalition together, that would be a problem for the Liberals.

Rafael Epstein:

Nats and One Nation.

Colleen Harkin:

Nats and One Nation. I mean, imagine that as an alternative-

Rafael Epstein:

Can I take it back to something you said? I think you said … I’ll get Emma’s thoughts, but I think I know what Emma’s going to say. I’m curious about what Colleen’s going to say. You said if the Liberal Party ever got back in. Are we at that point?

Colleen Harkin:

They can’t do it by themselves. They have to be in coalition with the Nationals to get up. That’s just a fact of numbers. There also is the bigger problem of who are they and what do they stand for anymore? Because they’re bleeding voters away to One Nation and so is Labour. There’s a lot of dissatisfied voters out there. So it is an existential time for the Liberal Party to work out who it is, what it stands for, and working out that tension that has always been its strength and its weakness of the tension between moderates and conservatives. It’s a very fine and tight wire that it walks, but it’s important that it can do that. And not being able to do that means that it is just falling apart foundationally and that there’s a lot of sort of centre right voters who feel homeless at the moment. And that’s why they’re-

Rafael Epstein:

I know. They’re calling up this week.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah. They’re sort of moving to One Nation on the basis of saying, “Well, maybe in the past I thought Pauline was too much, but she’s called it for a long time. She’s consistent.” And that’s where the Liberal Party’s losing its standing with people. So I don’t think they should reunite Nationals and Coalition anytime soon because they both have to get their house in order. And if they were to get back together again anytime soon, it just looks ridiculous. It’s like a toxic relationship, but they’ve got to sort themselves out because the voters really need them to get their act together.

Rafael Epstein:

Emma?

Emma Dawson:

It’s a case of be careful what you wish for really in terms of Susan Ley’s approach to the legislation. Stamp your feet, Parliament must come back, must act on this. And then whoops, this is going to split us right down the middle. I disagree with you, Colleen, when you say that centre right voters are homeless and moving to One Nation. I think your centre right supporters of the Liberal National Coalition are actually now in the teal camp and it’s your further right supporters that are going to One Nation. And Anthony Green, former ABC legend on his blog the other day pointed out that if One Nation’s polling at 20, 22% nationally, that probably means they’re polling around 35 in some of those National party seats. And that then becomes an issue where they’re leading the vote. And so you’re not going to knock them out with preferences the way that John Howard did.

This is a significant … And Andrew Hastie, as you just said, well, a lot of supporters have turned on him for supporting the legislation that allowed the government to ban certain groups. The question is why, what supporters moving away from him for that? Are they people that are flirting with very nationalist policies? And by nationalist, I mean, the Nazi policies.

Rafael Epstein:

If I can mention sort of the Tim Wilson camp of, I don’t know, what do you call him, a free speech?

Emma Dawson:

Zealot.

Rafael Epstein:

Yeah. Okay. He’d probably happy with that label. So maybe let’s come back to the legislation. Is there some value in what Colleen said, Libs and Nats being apart and the Libs thrashing out leadership, will it lead them to a more coherent place?

Emma Dawson:

They don’t have a lot of moderates left in the leadership race is the point. And I think what we’re seeing here is not just a split in the coalition, but if I may be so bold as to say, actually a collapse of the Menzian grouping that brought together the Liberal Party in the first place.

Rafael Epstein:

It might be the end of the Liberal party?

Emma Dawson:

I think it’s the end of the Liberal Party as we know it. I think in modern times, the brand is much more important than it was in the 1940’s. If you look back before World War II, there was the Labour Party and there were various groupings of anything that wasn’t Labour. And Menzies brought those groups together and formed a winning coalition. And I think the brand is more important than it was back then. When you change the name of a party, it’s a much bigger thing. But I think it’s not just today. The end of the Liberal Party, as we know, it began with the Simon Holmes court move to take those blue ribbon that really genuinely sent us into right seats that went to people like Allegra Spender, whom 20 years ago-

Rafael Epstein:

Would have been a Liberal.

Emma Dawson:

Would have been a Liberal party member.

Rafael Epstein:

Colleen’s desperate to jump in on lots of points.

Colleen Harkin:

Because I’m kind of disagreeing with you.

Rafael Epstein:

No, that’s good.

Colleen Harkin:

I think that you’re talking about there’s no sort of moderates left in the leadership race. I think that within the Liberal Party, there’s disillusionment with the leadership. It’s not because she’s a moderate or she’s a conservative. It’s because she’s performed poorly.

Emma Dawson:

And it’s partly because she’s a woman, Colleen, let’s be honest.

Colleen Harkin:

No, no, no. I genuinely disagree. I genuinely think-

Emma Dawson:

I think there’s a bit of that. Some of these blokes-

Colleen Harkin:

You just said yourself that she-

Emma Dawson:

Maybe not in the Liberal party, but [inaudible 00:08:37].

Colleen Harkin:

She hankered to get Parliament back and then she didn’t have a plan. So she had Albanese on the rope, so to speak.

Rafael Epstein:

Can I separate something out? I think you’re saying she’s performed poorly, which is fine. I think Emma’s saying, I mean, the people who aren’t in that Liberal party room are people like in Bradfield. So in Bradfield, in Sydney, you’ve got a teal independent. Yes, you’ve got Tim Wilson back, but you don’t have a Josh Frydenberg or an Amelia Hamer in the party room. You’ve got Monique Ryan sitting on the crossbench. I think that’s what Emma’s saying.

Colleen Harkin:

But, there’s loads of moderates. Andrew Bragg… –

Emma Dawson:

– Andrew Bragg lost his claim to be a moderate when he came out in support of Scott Morrison’s suggestion that we start policing Islam. He lost his –

Rafael Epstein:

– Just let me drill down because Emma’s basically saying to you, Colleen, that the liberal part of the smaller liberal part of the liberal party is dying that policies, I’m guessing things like asylum from beginning with asylum seeker policy and climate policy, that you don’t have as much middle ground than as you used to have in the Liberal party. Do you agree with that or not?

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, no, that is probably true. But I think what you’re trying to characterise it as as being some kind of far right perspective is what I’m pushing back on because I think it is actually, it is what the … The vast population sort of says that they want to do things like celebrate Australia. They want to do things like have cost of living handled. They want energy cost-

Emma Dawson:

– There’s nothing right wing about cost of living right now-

Colleen Harkin:

But there’s nothing extreme that we’re talking about here.

Emma Dawson:

We’re talking about culture war.

Rafael Epstein:

But isn’t Emma saying that … Well, I guess I hear Emma saying you’re losing voters in the middle ground and you are, right?

Emma Dawson:

Yes.

Rafael Epstein:

The Liberal Party, we know that because of the electoral results in Victoria and in Australia, that devastating result under Peter Dutton. Yes, it’s partly about his leadership. You’re saying though that actually things like what Emma would call the cultural war issues, standing up for Australia Day, that sort of stuff, is the path back to the middle. I don’t think Emma thinks you’re right. So why are those issues the path back to the middle?

Colleen Harkin:

Because it’s actually what the vast majority of people want. Just say, for example, Australia Day has been controversial for several years recently and all the polling shows that like 83% of 18 to 24 year olds want to celebrate on Australia Day and hang on and they want it to be illegal, a criminal offence to burn the flag.

Emma Dawson:

Yeah, but listen, listen, let’s just be clear here. There are positions that are pushed by culture warriors on Australia Day, on welcome to country and things like that. There are a lot of people in the middle of Australia who when polled might agree with Andrew Hastie or Barnaby Joyce on that, but it doesn’t change their vote, Colleen. It’s a very small group of people-

Colleen Harkin:

But, I think-

Emma Dawson:

That change their vote according to culture.

Colleen Harkin:

With respect, I think you’re wrong because what’s happening?

Emma Dawson:

Well, if you look at the last election, a lot of those people in the centre, they went for a sensible centrist centre-leftish Labour government and they preferenced, even if they didn’t give them their first vote, they won on preferences.

Colleen Harkin:

Now, I think-

Rafael Epstein:

Just let her continue.

Emma Dawson:

They don’t change their vote. The majority of people in the centre while they might go, “Look, I don’t care about all this cultural stuff and the Australia Day. And yes, why are people exercised about Australia Day?” They’re not as switched on as say the cultural left are to those issues, but they don’t change their vote on them.

And if you keep moving, if the coalition keeps moving to capture those people that feel very, very strongly about Australia, that frankly, a lot of them are quite … And this is a minority of people, I want to emphasise that, that are actually racist. Most people just find that stuff leaves them cold and they want a party that’s focused on the things that affect them. And that’s where I think the Liberal Party has lost its way in terms of it used to be, what does it stand for in the economic sense anymore? The last election, Peter Dutton’s spending promises were through the roof and that’s not what centre right liberal voters traditionally wanted.

Rafael Epstein:

Colleen.

Colleen Harkin:

Phew.

Rafael Epstein:

I want you to both get up off your chairs so that it’s easier if we can hear you separately.

Colleen Harkin:

So I unsurprisingly disagree with you.

Rafael Epstein:

Good.

Colleen Harkin:

But it’s because I think that Australia is a very different place to what it was even four months ago. And I think what has happened, the tragedy of Bondi has awakened people to say, “Who is Australia and what do we stand for?” And so all those people who have been somewhat disengaged for a long period of time have kind of like gone, “Whoa, this is not.”

Rafael Epstein:

Can I interrupt, Colleen? And I want you to continue. Emma’s saying the empirical data shows you’re wrong election after election.

Colleen Harkin:

No, because I think people, oppositions generally don’t win elections. People vote them out. And for the last number of elections, the Liberal Party’s done an appalling job in campaigning and policy development and selling the policy. It’s been nonexistent.

Emma Dawson:

And my argument is that is because [inaudible 00:13:32].

Rafael Epstein:

Hold on. Hold on.

Colleen Harkin:

But people don’t vote a party in. They tend to vote a party out and there hasn’t been enough substance to vote out. I mean, you look at Victoria, the amount of people who would say, “Oh, we need a better opposition.” They’re crying out for it and they’re looking for it, but it’s not yet there. So it’s like the devil you know. People that will stay with what is there unless they really are disastrous and they push them out.

Emma Dawson:

And if they look at the alternative and think that’s just a bridge too far for me.

Colleen Harkin:

Well, I mean, Tony Abbot is famously one of the only [inaudible 00:14:05].

Rafael Epstein:

One at a time, one at a time. Emma, I’ll give you just a little short right of reply and then we’ll take a quick break, but sorry.

Emma Dawson:

I think it’s true that governments lose rather than oppositions win with the exception of 2019 perhaps, but that people will not make change, particularly in a time of high risk and high stress, right? Globally, we’re in a time we haven’t seen since the 1930’s. And there are a lot of people in Australia. There are some that are doing very, very well and there are some at the bottom that are doing very poorly, but the vast majority of people in the sort of middle 40%, they’re okay, but they’re stretched very thin and they don’t want big risks. And so they’ll look at the incumbent government and here in Victoria perhaps and go, “Look, there’s a lot of problems here, but the other lot cannot get their act together. That is too much of a risk.” And that has happened federally and it happened repeatedly here in Victoria.

And I know we agree on this about the Liberal Party needing to get their act together, but when people in Australia, and we are a very pragmatic centrist lot in a lot of ways, but when they look at the liberal and coalition offering and think all they are talking about, they’re suing each other in court, they’re angry at each other for climate change, they can’t agree on even the most basic principles of what their economics is, why would we go down that path? And too many people in your party, Colleen, are saying, “Go further right. That’s the way. We’ve got to defeat One Nation.” No, it’s like Labour doesn’t try and outgreen the Greens. There’s no point. You’ve got to build a bigger coalition than that 10% of extremists on the wings.

Rafael Epstein:

Okay. I do want to get to calls. 1300-222-774 is the phone number. You can hear how much they disagree, but that’s good. That’s important because we’re talking about the people you vote for that run the country and they’re two of the biggest brands we’ve got and they’ve dominated government for decades. So Emma Dawson and Colleen Harkin are with you. Plenty more to talk about this week. Give me a call if any of this stuff is stirring thoughts for you or maybe there’s something we have not mentioned that we should be talking about.

Rafael Epstein:

At 1300 222 774 is the number. I don’t know if this is a related topic or not, but let’s throw it in, because we’ve been talking a lot about the Liberal Party because there’s so much going that is up in the air for the Liberal Party. Scott Morrison achieved what no one thought he would achieve. He was derived as the substitute teacher. And he didn’t demolish Labour in 2019, but not many people expected him to win. He then took his government to an election, significant election loss. And really, the phenomenon Emma’s talking about of the Teals, I’m sorry to call them that, I know they’re community independents in their mind. They really moved in on the liberal heartland under Scott Morrison’s leadership. That’s context for what they’re talking about.

This week, Scott Morrison was in Israel. He wants Islamic preachers to be regulated in ways that he says is not necessary for those of the Jewish and Christian faith. And he knew that this would inspire calls that he’s an Islamophobia. Here is him anticipating that criticism.

Scott Morrison:

Some will seek to characterise my remarks as hostile to Australia’s Islamic community, and even multiculturalism itself, trolling out the usual accusations of Islamophobia. To the contrary, I’m advocating reforms that I believe will help religious leaders in our Islamic community keep the wolves from their flock.

Rafael Epstein:

Now, is that an idea that’s worth pursuing? I struggled with airing it. It’s very easy for that idea to be seen as outright prejudice. I’ll ask my guests in a moment what they think of it, because I also heard support for that idea from some of our callers, but let’s just bring William in from Berwick. What do you want to mention, William?

William:

Oh, hi. I’m sorry. I don’t know the names of your two guests there, but-

Rafael Epstein:

Colleen and Emma.

William:

Oh, hi, Colleen and Emma. Look, I’m just a mug punter, right? And with great respect to your guests, I think they’re overthinking this. Look, the average punter like me, all we can do is make our decision based on what we hear on the telly and what we hear on the radio. We don’t know the inner machinations of Canberra. The 80% of the population make a political decision based on a gut feeling. And with the Liberal Party and the coalition just completely at each other’s throats, why would you actually vote for something like that? I think there’s a lot of overthinking going on here. It’s not as complicated as that. It’s simple. The coalition, they’re just in disarray.

Rafael Epstein:

Coalition in disarray. Okay. I’m going to leave that as a thought for others to pick up. Colleen, I’ll start with you. We don’t impose licencing on other religions. I think also the Imams Council were very upset because they feel that they already do a lot around extremism, and they are the most intimately acquainted with these issues. But what do you think of what Scott Morrison said about?

Colleen Harkin:

And I definitely do not want to come across as having any particular knowledge of Imams and how they come to be. Because my understanding is that, for example, in a Catholic Church, to become a priest, you have to do about six or seven years of training that does religious studies and law and all of that kind of stuff, right?

Rafael Epstein:

Well, it’s the most hierarchical organised religion, in many ways.

Colleen Harkin:

And that for it to be an Imam, you can… Now, I may be wrong on this, so I preface it, that so long as you have a flock and you’re a person who’s considered to be able to interpret the Quran and you have people following you, there’s no structure to it. But ironically, that’s the same as Scott Morrison’s church, that area of Christianity that is the new-

Rafael Epstein:

A lot of religions are going that way, aren’t they? Where they’re chucking off hierarchies.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah. I do think we have a problem with radical Islamism in the country, and I don’t know how to address it. I don’t think regulating the Imams is the way to go, because it kind of goes against my grain of your right to think what you want to, and free speech and all of that sort of stuff. And more regulation really does very much in my world. But I do think that there is a problem with radical Islamism and the hate preaching that has gone on that we haven’t addressed. I don’t agree with Scott Morrison that regulating it in some way, particularly only for one religion, that’s extremely problematic in my view. But I would like to see the Imams come out and be more outspoken about what is the collective understanding of the interpretation of the Quran.

Rafael Epstein:

Well, to be honest, I see those press releases a lot when it comes to particular incidents of terrorism. Whether or not I’m not interviewing them or they’re not available, or they’re not prominent, they are endlessly making statements about the things that they are also concerned about. But the free speech wing of the Liberal Party, well enunciated thereby from Colleen. What did you make of Scott Morrison’s idea?

Emma Dawson:

Appalling. And you want to talk about the death of liberalism, this is the most illiberal idea I’ve heard from a former Liberal Party.

Rafael Epstein:

It’s a bit like Tony Abbott calling for more of the reformation without recognising the reformation costs 30 million lives.

Emma Dawson:

Precisely, yeah. And you want to talk about… It’s extremism that’s the problem, and singling out one particular faith is very, very damaging to our social cohesion as a nation. I would suggest that, as Colleen said, the church that Morrison is himself part of is a fairly extremist Christian wing. They preach a thing called the prosperity doctrine, it’s all about how much money you can make for yourself. Well, someone raised Catholic, I find that pretty offensive.

Colleen Harkin:

But you’re entitled… See, my thing is that you’re entitled to believe whatever you want to believe. You’re not entitled to incite violence.

Emma Dawson:

No.

Rafael Epstein:

And that’s in the eye of the beholder.

Emma Dawson:

It is. And-

Colleen Harkin:

Well… this is a problem with these new hate speec1h laws.

Emma Dawson:

This idea that an evangelical Christian can start telling the leaders of Islamic faith in Australia how to talk and how to manage their flock. You either believe in freedom of religion or you don’t. It’s that simple.

Rafael Epstein:

Okay. Emma Dawson and Colleen Harken with me. Emma is calling… Different Emma, is calling from Hampton. What do you want to mention, Emma?

Emma:

Oh, morning. Just on the Scott Morrison affair, notwithstanding the content of what he’s saying, I think it just was so disingenuous. If he genuinely cares about the Islamic faith, has he had any discussions with Islamic leaders? Has he canvased this idea? We could have taken him more seriously if it had been an announcement with some Imams saying, “Look, we have all this –

Rafael Epstein:

Rather than in Israel.

Emma:

Yeah, correct. He drops a… I was going to say something that was poor choice of language. He decides to canvas this idea that no one’s heard him say before in Israel. Seems to me he hasn’t right up past any of the actual leaders in the Islamic community. He doesn’t care. He doesn’t care about whether there’s a reform to that faith, which I’m unsure why he feels that he has any kind of insight to add there. But he hasn’t run that idea by anyone, it’s not a collaborative thought. The content is insane. But just the very notion… Yeah, exactly. And he hasn’t even spoken or engaged with people that all affects.

Rafael Epstein:

Involved in that religion. Look, Emma, thank you. And before I get a culture share from my very cultured contributors, Gordon, they’re both laughing and rolling their eyes. Gordon’s in South Melbourne. You wanted to say something about the Liberal Party, Gordon?

Gordon:

Yeah. Well, my grandfather came out from the UK as a new liberal back in the mid-50s and settled in Tasmania. By the time he got here, the person that he was going to work for died in a plane accident in India, but he didn’t get a job at all. But what their problem is they cannot seem to understand that women have a right to be in a part of –

Rafael Epstein:

When you say they, you’re talking about liberals? Liberal Party?

Gordon:

The Liberal Party, yeah. They don’t seem to understand about women. They just think that they should be seen and not heard.

Rafael Epstein:

Do you really think they’re like that?

Gordon:

Yes, I was a part of it. I grew up in that situation for about 30 years before I saw the light and moved to the central area.

Rafael Epstein:

Look, Gordon, that’s interesting. I will point out, I’m pretty sure from its inception the Liberal Party’s had a 50/50 split on the administrative part of the party. In fact, which I think is the committee that Colleen sits on.

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, 100%. From its very inception it’s had 50% women, 50% male in the administration. It’s also had, for example, more women in… Everyone carries on about Tony, but he had more women in his office than –

Rafael Epstein:

Can I point out something to you? You’ve had a quota for women on the committee you sit on since the 50s. [inaudible 00:09:23]-

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, I actually don’t agree with it. I actually don’t agree with quotas. Yeah –

I just think it’s got to be my merit. Women are more than capable of doing their job.

Emma Dawson:

The first female MPs, first female ministers, liberal.

Colleen Harkin:

Liberal.

Emma Dawson:

But lost your way in the years since.

Rafael Epstein:

Lost your ways in the year since. Hang on a second [inaudible 00:09:38]-

Emma Dawson:

I have theory about what goes on there.

Rafael Epstein:

Let’s not get too much into quotas. I do want to get more from you both, including your culture shares, and I’ll get to more calls as well, but let’s just get some news headlines with Mary McDonald. Good morning.

I will get to your changing track at about a quarter to 11:00. But before I farewell Emma and Colleen, when Emma’s not reading books about women in the Liberal Party in the 1950s, culture share, you’re usually good with the trending Netflix type show.

Emma Dawson:

Yeah. Last season of Queer Eye’s back on Netflix this week. Season 10 and the final one.

Rafael Epstein:

That’s the final one. I didn’t know. They’re ending it. 10 seasons enough. Okay. That’s a recommendation?

Emma Dawson:

Look, it’s just a bit uplifting in these difficult times to see people loving people and helping people. And it’s very positive.

Rafael Epstein:

Is it still essentially a glow up show?

Emma Dawson:

Yep, it’s a glow up show. Yeah. It’s a lot of fun. But also, if you can get out of the house, check out the Diva Exhibition at the Australian Performing Arts Museum.

Colleen Harkin:

Oh, yeah.

Emma Dawson:

Have you seen it?

Rafael Epstein:

Good.

Emma Dawson:

Terrific. Yeah.

Rafael Epstein:

That’s all the costumes and things everyone from Dame Nellie Melba through to Kylie.

Emma Dawson:

Yeah, it’s really fun.

Rafael Epstein:

Colleen?

Colleen Harkin:

I have a Netflix. It’s All Her Fault. It’s like a thriller, but it doesn’t start out that way. You start out as a mum feeling incredibly guilty about being a working mum and all of that kind of stuff, but it takes you on a path six or eight sessions on it. It’s very, very good. Part of it’s filmed in Melbourne, so you’ll recognise different places. And the lead actress in it is also Australian.

Emma Dawson:

Sarah Snook.

Colleen Harkin:

Sarah Snook.

Rafael Epstein:

Is that Netflix or Binge? It’s all [inaudible 00:12:50] film might be Binge. [inaudible 00:12:51] Yeah, it is good, is it?

Colleen Harkin:

It’s terrific. I really enjoyed it. Because it takes a working mum through this process of going, “Oh, my God, what have I done?”

Emma Dawson:

No, I loved it.

Colleen Harkin:

But you get taken on a journey, and it’s very good.

Rafael Epstein:

And Melbourne is a good standing for Chicago?

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah. Yeah. It is actually. It definitely works. I didn’t even realise it until I saw one scene, I went, “Oh, that looks a bit like Jeff’s Shed.”

Rafael Epstein:

Do they have buildings like that in Chicago?

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah. And then there’s a couple of other places, the Elwood Beach and things like that. Then you realise that there are bits and pieces that are Melbourne based.

Rafael Epstein:

Does Elwood double for a beach of Michigan Lake or something.

Colleen Harkin:

Yes. It works though.

Rafael Epstein:

I often criticise that beach, it’s just like a lake. Emma Dawson’s from the Chifley Research Centre, Colleen Harkin’s from the Institute of Public Affairs. Thank you to both of you.

Colleen Harkin:

Thank you.

Emma Dawson:

Thank you.

This transcript of Colleen Harkin speaking on Weekly Wrap Mornings – ABC Radio Melbourne from 30 January 2026 has been edited for clarity.