Colleen Harkin on Mornings with Tom Elliott 3AW – 22 April 2026

Tom Elliott:

The National Anthem, now this is a few years old. In fact, it’s 12 years old. This is an Argentinian tenor having a crack at the Australian national anthem back in 2014 ahead of a rugby game between the wallabies and Argentina.

Argentinian singer:

Let us rejoice, for we are young and free, we’ve golden soil and wealth for toil, our home is girt by sea

Tom Elliott:

I’m not even sure that’s English, but that’s an Argentinian singer having a crack at our anthem. At least you have a crack. He had a crack. A third of Australians say they don’t know the words. Our next guest is director of education programmes at the Institute of Public Affairs. Colleen Harkin, good morning.

Colleen Harkin:

Good morning.

Tom Elliott:

Well, that was pretty funny, but that was a real Argentinian singer having a crack at our anthem. But why is it that almost a third of Australians say they don’t really know the words?

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, that was pretty painful to listen to, wasn’t it? Look, I mean, most schools sing a national anthem, perhaps maybe only once a term. It is not something that’s mandated in schools. A lot of schools will do an acknowledgement to country, sometimes daily or weekly, but the national anthem doesn’t really get a high priority in schools anymore, which our view is that needs to be reversed. It has been reversed in places like, for example, the Northern Territory. Earlier this year, the Minister for Education mandated the singing of both verses of the national anthem and for students to stand while singing it to boost national pride. We’d be very supportive of that happening in all Victorian schools as well.

Tom Elliott:

Can I ask you, is it a state by state thing? So is it the Victorian government that does not mandate the singing of the national anthem in Victoria?

Colleen Harkin:

Yeah, correct. And the Victorian government actually stipulates that you must not compel students to participate in it. For example, for religious, cultural, philosophical, or other reasons, students must not be compelled to participate.

Tom Elliott:

Well, but sorry, no. I’m not having to go at you, but I mean, that seems ridiculous. I mean, if you want to take part in an Australian taxpayer funded education system, I would’ve thought just singing the national anthem once a week is not too much to ask, is it?

Colleen Harkin:

Oh, I totally agree with you. Look, it gets actually worse than that, Tom. There are what’s called third party providers, which are organisations which provide material that goes into schools. And there’s one in particular that is completely objectionable that teaches students to sit for a national anthem and share it on social media as a form of protest. And that’s in lots of schools, this material. So we have …

Tom Elliott:

So you’re saying if the anthem is played, the teachers will sit down and turn their backs to it or something like that. They protest against the anthem.

Colleen Harkin:

Yes. There’s an organisation that has material that encourages the students to sit for the national anthem as a form of protest and to video themselves doing it and share it on social media.

Tom Elliott:

But on what basis?

Colleen Harkin:

Completely undermining Australian shared values and unification.

Tom Elliott:

But what’s the logic? They’re saying what, because it’s stolen land or because they just hate Australia or they preferred Waltzing Matilda instead of Advanced Australia fear or what?

Colleen Harkin:

No. Yes, it’s tied into all of the Aboriginal history and culture and sustainability components of the national curriculum and encourages students to be activists.

Tom Elliott:

And do teachers take part in this protest against the anthem?

Colleen Harkin:

Well, they could do. Anybody who’s using that material is a participant and kind of agrees with that antagonistic view. So my point here is that there are very few places in Australian schools where they are robustly committed to sort of sharing Australian values and national identity and pride by singing the national anthem and making sure that the kids know the words and stand up and sing it with gusto together to sort of unify them. That’s really not what happens in our schools.

Tom Elliott:

All right, that’s interesting. Thank you for your time. Colleen Harkin there, Director of Education Programmes at the Institute of Public Affairs. Again, when I went to Scouts, it would’ve been in the late 1970’s, early 1980’s, we were taught to fold the flag, the Australian flag. And if you touched the ground, there was a punishment. I forget what it was, but I mean, you didn’t want to let that happen because there was a punishment. I wonder if the Scouts still do that.

This transcript of Colleen Harkin on Mornings – 3AW Melbourne with Tom Elliot from 22 April 2026 has been edited for clarity.